And to summarise my original question and the constructive responses & rationale that resulted, since it seems some are missing the forest for the trees:
My question: Are there any higher level developers on here, or just code hackers? Just trying to work out if this is a good place to ask more difficult code questions, or if I should look elsewhere?
Relevant responses:
I sort of understand where you’d get the impression that high level developers are few and far between on SP these days. At one point this was the place to be if you were on the bleeding edge of web (and some desktop) development. That seems to have changed over the years… I can still name a few members here who are hardcore coders but they are just a handful compared to just a few years ago.
The discussions have changed too which reflects the changing demographic. There seem to be a lot more questions surrounding point and click, download a theme and add a bunch of features rather than how do I extend the system by accessing hooks of an API. I miss the old days of discussions that dug beneath the surface.
As far as SP goes, I’m still hanging in there and I make suggestions regarding the forum architecture every now and then but I don’t understand the direction they’re taking it at the moment. I miss the PHP App Development section and I think the CMS section should be split into two or more sections to cover configuration and code/development.
There are some brilliant people around here, but part of the problem with a forum is that people’s attendance is somewhat random, so on any given day, week or month there’s no guarantee of what help/answers you will get.
Back in 2006, when deeve07 joined SP, the quality of discussion was far more technically oriented and I think the forum architecture was better suited to getting into those discussions. Over time that has changed. We used to have an application development subsection under PHP where there were deep discussions about design patterns; not just MVC, but all sorts patterns. I did a little posting in there but more often I lurked and learned and then bought books to learn more. Then CMS became CMS & Wordpress which kind of leaves those of us who work on other systems out in the cold… If this has somehow improved SP’s business model or bottom line, well that’s great but I do miss the deep coding and development discussions.
… the reason for stripping out / merging some forums is that they were basically withering on the vine. So it seems to be an issue of changing times rather than a wish on the part of SitePoint to change things. Before the forums were reordered, the staff did discuss this at length, wondering how—if possible—to turn things back to the way they were. But it seems nothing lasts forever … and people don’t seem to be turning to forums now the way they did some years ago. The forum admins are very open to any ideas people have about the way forward, though.
…regardless of how he’s asked the question, he raised a valid point. The quality of development discussions has dropped considerably in the last couple of years. I’ve been here a while and I’ve seen it drop and I’m concerned about it too.
BTW: your suggestion isn’t going to help find an answer his question. He’s not a newb. This place used to be the exact place where you could go ask highly technical questions of complete strangers and get help finding the answers. No question was “really dumb” or “useless” It helped grow a community because the more people were helped, the more they chipped in helping others. Now, not so much maybe…
Thanks for your post @deeve007 ; you certainly make a very relevant point. I’ll attempt to address it.
The bottom line is this: the nature and purpose of forums has changed. They used to be places where people would come to bounce around complicated ideas with their peers. Experts hung out here because there was nowhere else to hang out. That isn’t the case any more. There are so many other options for that kind of interaction that people don’t waste their time with forums where they are constantly interrupted by newbies (for want of a nicer way of putting it). Forums are now environments for (1) people looking for a quick answer that they can grab and leave and (2) beginners that like the anonymity of asking what they think may be perceived as a ‘dumb’ question in a theoretically nurturing environment. Those are both valid reasons to be here, but they pose a problem for us in terms of retaining experts. The two groups are incongruous and are looking for different things.
Now that deeve007 brought up the subject I’m a bit curious, and/or perplexed about it because I always felt there was a lot of value in the knowledgebase that was the SP forum. Also, I wonder what happened to some of the members from way back when. I guess they’ve moved on to other interests. Maybe as ralph_m mentioned the questions stopped coming up and times have changed.
While I can totally see the logic in this decision … I believe the unfortunate consequence has been exactly what has been mentioned in this thread. You might be attracting more newcomers, but in order for them to stay, they’re going to want to have some more experienced developers to learn from. And unfortunately, some of them may have moved on seeking greener pastures.
Like Sarah and Ralph I feel that it’s a natural progression for forums and online communities, and not necessarily a sign that anything is going wrong at SP.
Twitter, Github, Blogs and Local meetups provide more focused ways for people who are really interested in some topic to learn / share and communicate with others who have the same interests.
Forums are more accessible and allow anyone to ask questions so it attracts a lot more people who a new to it and the Sitepoint books are also geared towards beginners.
Those are some of the reasons for the change in demographic.
I too have been around since the days of deeper discussions, collaboration, and experts that congregated here together. The demographics yes have changed, but it seems to be a little cyclical. Many advanced people had to field the same sort of basic questions over and over when the times where deeper discussions were more the norm. Given that many of these people became highly involved with corporate work, open source initiatives, and standards committees (mostly triggered by them being experts). I have noticed in the last 4 months a new wave of advanced people beginning to emerge. I don’t mean to say that it will go back to the old days but I have seen a small rebirth of expertise in the PHP forums say. I know there is still alot of expertise in the Design You Website, Program Your Website, and Host Your Website.
In addition SitePoint has created more specific areas of expertise like PHPmasters.com, DesignFestival.com, BuildMobile.com, CloudSpring.com, and RubySource.com. Each of these sites have member with considerable expertise in their respective areas. This rollout and change takes time to establish and to organize, but I have also seen SitePoint proactively tying these resources back into SitePoint, and I believe this trend will continue. Given this it is more likely that experts will give some more focus to SitePoint forums.
That’s from the first page and a half…