As interesting as the idea is, it is worthless. Unless the card is swiped through a reader or imprinted that sognature is worthless.
One reason why we stopped acceprting AMEX on our sites.
I wanted to chime in here about chargebacks since really no mention of having a TOS available on your website is important in being able to dispute a chargeback. If you have these available (as we do and have them “accept” it), then it shouldn’t be that difficult to contest.
The fact is that visa/mastercard factor disputed charges/losses into their business model. The goal isn’t about just chargebacks - it’s about making sure that you actually shouldn’t have faced a chargeback.
Roj
We’ve never won a charge-back yet, even where it has been clear the customer signed up to use our service. In one case, the customer faxed through their charge-back to their bank on headed paper - with their website and email address at the top, on the headed paper, and their website, was clearly still hosted with us at the time, it used our DNS servers, and traced to our network - We still lost the charge-back. Unless you’ve got a signature (and it is a good match to the one on the card) or a VbV or SC acceptance, then you’re going to loose.
How hard would it be with a an online image editing program to let people actually sign a .gif image and have it save the image at completion. Essentially just like digitally signing for good from ups or even the new digital pads at self checkout at stop and shop. If the problem is the signature wouldn’t this be a solution? I could be way off here…but it makes sense in my demented mind.
Also I have yet to have a chargeback with paypal in 2 years, there was 1 dispute I can remember because the persons email box was too full to get his goods, but that is neither here nor there. In comparison I have a fraudulent purchase weekly from 2checkout(dot)com
Can anyone recommend a service that is better than 2co? Someone who has changed and found something better.
You are assuming that the customer has the capability to do so.
Theoretically they would only need a mouse. The image editing program would be built into the ordering page. They wouldnt need any software.
Moving a mouse is a lot different than a pen. I know I can’t sign my name with a mouse and have it look like my signature card. In a brick and mortar store, they have the benefit of having a card imprint/swipe to match with the signature. This is why they are allowed to use digital signatures. Even then it is a pressure oriented pen device that approximates a real pen’s highs and lows.
That is the key. The imprint/swipe is what matters most.
I don’t think it would be easy Charles, because, in spite of great advances, you still have quite a large number of online users who are not web savvy and also using the mouse to sign is harder than a pen, purely on having the signature match.
Well it was a good thought if we all had pen mice 
I agree that with a mouse I sign my name like a 1st grade student. But it isn’t that far off from my normal signature, so that doesnt say much.
That may probably won’t be too far away
For any kind of signature to work, it has to be in conjunction with the swipe of the card. The easiest way to do this is to put signature on the card. This would in turn require technology investments on the consumers ends (not much though). The card companies have met this halfway but not with a full solution.
What needs to happen is that merchants need to band together and ask the card companies for a complete solution. This solution should be something like this:
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Card readers on personal PC’s. Manufactured in bulk, these devices would cost around $20.00 to retail as it is a simple swipe mechanism. They can be in an external USB format or an internal device that sits in a 3.5" bay. The technology exists already as they are used in retail locations, ATM Machines, Gas Pumps, POS Kiosks, Vending Machines and more all around the world.
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A digital signature which is placed on the magnetic strip of the card itself. This signature can be transmitted as part of the transaction to the card issuer to verify that the card is in the hands of the user. The browser would simply have to pull this information as part of an SSL transaction and transmit it as a post field. By programming the browser not to store or cache this information, you can make sure that the card is present even on public terminals.
The biggest hurdle is the browser but the card issuers can create add-ons to enhance today’s browsers with the technology. That is if they are truly sincere about making sure their customer’s finances and information is safe. While it does require some additional computer hardware, I can see banks offering this as an incentive to get customers to move to their secure solution and making the cost back on fees and interest. New computer manufacturers can jump in and add them on for little cost to themselves as well.
I’m setting up shop and what I’m reading in this thread is really worrying…
Is there no way to get extra security from the post/delivery service, like signature confirmation, or return receipt (which has the recipient’s signature on it)?
The problem with this, is that if the card itself was stolen, the thief can still use it since it would have the digital signature on it. It would help for the waste of time chargebacks (not recognizing charge on statement). But, there are so many other reasons for a chargeback that there would have to be a massive restructure of the way Visa and Mastercard classify chargebacks. Something like ‘product not as described’ is open for a lot of interpretation.
I think there need to be some sort of online PIN based system. But again, the problem would be if someone gets their pin stollen it would again come back to the merchant.
Personally I think that there should be repurcussions against card holders for making chargebacks and loosing them. Obviously it wouldn’t fix everything, but the fact that card holders are not accountable for what happens to their card is insane.
Also, this doesn’t apply to all card issuing banks, but a little more responsibility from the banks that allow their customers to make chargebacks would help as well. Some banks require an affidavid to be signed, some require just a phone call. I’ve had a customer that received a chargeback for their customer not recognizing a charge. After contacting the customer who remembered them right away, it was found that they never made a chargeback, the bank did. All the customer did was call and ask for more information about the charge so that they could contact the business. The bank did a chargeback on their own part. I’ve also seen a company loose a chargeback to Amex even after the customer recognized the charge, and asked Amex to reverse it. Thats just plain messed up.
Sorry for bringing an old post back to life, but after reading through this entire post, I had a few questions.
Unfortunately with non-retail businesses once the chargeback is submitted they suck the funds right out and then notify you of the chargeback.
what would be the definition of a non-retail business here?
[QUOTE]About Visa
Visa International is a membership association owned by 21,000 financial institutions worldwide. We provide products, systems and services for banks and other organisations that are members of Visa. We also help to create standards for global interoperability, security and new technologies, so you can pay with Visa anywhere, any time and any way you choose.
Banks, credit cards, it’s all the same. If they wanted to change the rules they would and could. But they don’t. They just charge the merchant, regardless. No wonder credit card fraud is on the up and up. It doesn’t cost the banks a penny to process malicious or unjustified chargebacks.[/QUOTE]
In regard to the above point, I do think there is a good point there. As banks and financial institutions have stakes in visa (assuming this based on the above point), and as VISA-MAstercard and banks are mutually dependant on each other for profits. If banks really dislike chargebacks, why dont they lobby against Visa and Mastercard?
In Reference to Paypal
No disrespect to you tibrewal, but that is not true, especially if you are in the business of retailing digital files rather than physical goods. You have absolutely no protection when you are selling digital files.
Why is the policy different for digital goods? Does that mean you can just buy a piece of software, file a dispute, and get your money back?
Verified by Visa and SecureCode by MasterCard
As this is a fairly old post, has the use of these systems, been catching pace?
Thanks
I have just had 500 pounds worth of chargebacks filed against me… my account is now -500 … looks like i will have some letters from NCO soon.
:x
Sales of digital goods won’t qualify for the Seller Protection Policy, which protects merchants against chargebacks filed for non-receipt and unauthorized use. (SPP applies for sales of physical goods in some circumstances; transactions which qualified will indicate “Eligible” on the transaction details page within your account, and must be shipped using a method which offers online tracking. For full details of the Seller Protection Policy, you should refer to the information available on the PayPal website.)
However, digital goods sales are also not eligible for the Buyer Complaint process. If a buyer attempts a claim within the Resolution Center on a payment for an intangible good, it will generally be “deferred” with no action taken against the merchant. The buyer may still request a chargeback directly from the bank that issued their card.
When a chargeback is received, PayPal will request additional information from you in order to dispute the reversed charge with the issuing bank. It’s generally more difficult to dispute payments made for intangible goods, but providing additional information such as the refund policy published on your website, and any communication between you and the buyer, can help in getting a chargeback overturned.