That sounds to me like incompetency, rather than a problem with the platform itself. It’s true that to get the correct level of functionality ASP.NET controls are definitely the best way to go, but it doesn’t have to result in poor code if used correctly. The vast majority of controls I use from day to day is for extremely basic bits of code (Hyperlink, Literal, etc) and it’s impossible to really go wrong with a generated anchor tag…
If possible, get them to go MVC. There’s a lot less code fluff and a lot less code for the HTML writers to work around.
If anything, I would say that in general ASP.NET/C# developers are far more competent than those who write in PHP, simply because PHP has such a low barrier to entry and is such a basic language that has been hacked together over the years. You’re far more likely to see poor PHP code than poor C#. If we take WordPress as an example, the code behind it is awful to read (albeit for performance reasons it is good), whereas C# takes a thorough knowledge of OO and general software practices to get a working solution. The same goes for the likes of Python, and in my view if the majority of PHP developers were to move over to Python or ASP.NET/C# the programming world would be a better place.
If this thread has shown anything, it’s that it really DOESN’T MATTER what you use. Good code will always be good code, regardless of the language it uses. At a language level, C# is better for intensive, managed web applications and PHP is a pick-up-and-play type language that can be extremely powerful due to it being very basic. However, these differences are irrelevant for the small-to-medium business; in these situations it’s your preference.
Off Topic:
ASP.NET/C# developers do tend to get paid more than their PHP counterparts though.
I agree that ASP.NET doesn’t have to create bad HTML (I’ve personally used it in the past and was able to get it to create perfectly valid and best practice HTML). It’s just most people I see (personally) don’t like to take that extra effort. I know there are some that do have awesome sites powered by ASP.NET (such as some of those advocating for it in here), but that’s rare. Then again, it sometimes feels like it’s rare to see anyone doing standards-based stuff, period.
However, that is also just as valid with PHP if you use a framework. It does less stuff for you, by default, so you have to think about what you are doing a bit more (generally speaking).
I will also admit that C# can make very good powered web applications (if you have the appropriate hardware) because it can truly be compiled, something PHP natively lacks.
It is a bit more expensive to deploy C#/ASP.NET as well, because you have to have a Windows-based server (which means buying a Windows license and usually a SQL Server license as well), whereas PHP can be deployed on Linux/MySQL, which are completely free.
Nowadays that’s not such a problem. With the Razor view engine it is now possible to deploy ASP.NET pages easily without SQL Server, and the Mono project has come a LONG way (thanks partially to Microsoft for helping out) so that it is possible to run many ASP.NET web pages on a Linux server with a database like MySQL behind it. In the same vein, there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from using MySQL, PostgreSQL or Oracle in the same way as with PHP. It just requires calling different code/libraries.
I’ve toyed with code running on Mono and the experience hasn’t been as great as with a Windows server, but it’s definitely usable and it’s a fantastic example of open source software in the .NET ecosystem.
It’s a bold statement to make, but with PHP stagnating with several bugs and issues, and Ruby struggling to push its way into big business, over the past couple of years I firmly believe that the powerful forces in Web Development now is Python and ASP.NET. Both languages have shown that Web Development can be extremely powerful, just as powerful as application development on the desktop. Finally, as far as IDE’s go there are few solutions as great as Visual Studio. .NET is powering past Java in the ecosystem wars, and although I think that the likes of Jython and IronPython could become game-changers I truly believe that ASP.NET is the best choice for ANY developer looking to build a website.
Here’s a few links to highlight the things I’ve mentioned:
I’ve seen a similar thing, asp.net developers largely prefer to stay away from the front-end which means the front-end suffers.
PHP is less likely to do this because there’s not as great separation between the layers, you don’t have assemblies etc… you are forced to keep it simple and not abstract beyond recognition.
When you learn PHP you always start by simple scripting within the HTML.
With ASP.NET web forms you typically started by learning how to use controls and functions of the framework.
@ULTiMATE, it will be interesting to see where the industry goes.
Personally, I think the current languages / frameworks will stay around for a long time and Microsoft will keep leeching from the innovators as they have done ever since Helvetica.
Simple, fast, cloud-ready frameworks with well thought out deployment are the future.
[ot]Until OSX becomes a good platform for ASP.NET development it’s usage will continue to drop.
Why do we keep USPaperChaser’ account active? I’m not a fan of censoring anyone - but he clearly has nothing valuable to say.
He gives Microsoft a bad name, and that’s saying something
“The Steve Comment” was semi-serious, with the steady rise of mac usage I think it’s likely people will be learning tech that doesn’t require a pc / windows stack.
