Very good point LeoAP. I completely agree that you can use DIV to layout your page. Within the div, it is “optional” to use div or other html tags for structure. But, in a way you’re already using DIV tag for structure for layout. For example, where the top menu goe, where the footer go. So, let say within a single DIV tag, you are also structuring the layout. Why use DIV for “main” layout and not for “sub” layout? Honestly, I’m ok w/ developing in LeoAP’s style but why have 2 structuring system?
According to your logic, you shouldn’t be using lists, anchors, and pretty much any other HTML element, because they all have browser default CSS values assigned to them.
Honestly, we should have some tech battle rap w/ beers in hand and see who wins~ lol that would be totally geeky but I think it would be fun. Yes, I do understand your point. If I’m wrong I’ll learn it the hard way. I still believe in my philosophy.
Pretty much. Other than <head> it’s all <div> for me.
Let me put it other way. I don’t want HTML to define any structure. I only care about if data is complete. Meaning, I have the menu content, main content, footer content. I don’t care what order they are inside the HTML.
It can be
<div id=“footer”>
</div>
<div id=“menu”>
</div>
<div id=“content”>
</div>
It will display all in the right place. All I care is that data (HTML) is provided.
What constitutes learning it the hard way? Why not learn it the easy way from people who are kindly explaining it to you correctly?
This is akin to saying, “I don’t want to use a cup for drinking. I’d rather drink out of a knife.” HTML was created for defining structure of a document. That is its intended purpose. “It provides a means to create structured documents by denoting structural semantics for text such as headings, paragraphs, lists etc as well as for links, quotes, and other items.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML Go ahead and keep drinking out of a knife if you want and convince yourself it’s some new, avant garde, better way of drinking. I think everyone here likes to find new, creative, better ways of doing things. Your example is not one of them. And I say that in the nicest way possible.
So a fridge and cabinet are the same thing as well? – both containers – right?
They may share similar benefits and features, but are not interchangeable.
Just as a div, p, span,etc in HTML aren’t meant to be interchangeable.
Based on a is a relationship a div is not a span, span is not a div and li is not a ul, etc. However, all may share a common tag interface. So if you were only approaching this from a “tag” concept then they could be interchangeable. In regards to semantics though they are not the same. A paragraph has a contrasting purpose to that of a ul, p, etc. The same thing can be said for all other elements.
At times there may be a overlap because HTML elements fail to define the true given semantic structure of a element such as a fragment. It is then appropriate and necessary to look to alternatives that may not be perfect such as using a paragraph for a fragment. This isn’t perfect, but it work based on HTML failure to define the exact semantic element for that purpose. This is much different then marking up a list with nested divs when a HTML element exists for that purpose. The decision is relatively cut and dry in that instance.
I myself run with the philosophy the less divisions the better. The structure becomes more compact and easier to read without needless divisions everywhere.
Then you cannot use the div element either. In fact, if you don’t want HTML to define any structure, the only way of doing so, is not using HTML at all. You should be using a plain .txt document instead.
Thank you for putting it so succinctly. There simply is no way to escape having structure in your HTML document. If you’re going to use a DIV you might as well use an existing HTML element that describes the content even better if such an element exists (as in the case of P tags for paragraphs). A DIV tag is only to be used as a last resort, not as the one and only tag.
Quoted from an URI I provided earlier on:
It is important to avoid divitis in order to keep interfaces lean, fast performing and avoid code bloat (and therefore decrease maintainability of the application).
I do not see anywhere clearly stated that p should or should not be used in this situation. However, if the w3 reigns supreme:
<p><em>Start tag: <strong>required</strong>, End tag: <strong>
required</strong></em></p>
The w3 uses the p element exactly how I think it shouldn’t.
However, the w3 also does not self-close tags and only validates under transitional, so I’m still not completely satisfied.
The thing is, it isn’t you who learns it the hard way, it’s your users. I cannot believe you are offering a professional service like this, and making money off people by providing at best poor quality, at worst illegal, work.
It’s people like you that are the reason I am in such strong support of a recognised qualification in website design that people buying services can look for.
It might well ‘work’ and be fine for you, but that doesn’t make it right, and it doesn’t make it valid.
You are trying to use HTML, a language for defining structure, to completely remove all structure from your site. That is incredibly counter productive, and as others have said - why not just use a text document?
But anyway, back on topic: I think it’s perfectly acceptable to use <p> here. Paragraphs don’t have to be long pieces of text, there is no ‘minimum words’ to constitute a paragraph (Look in many books, and some are only 1 word long). And as Tommy said (I think), that copyright statement is only a shortened version of the full sentence anyway.
There is always HTML5’s <small> tag I guess (if it still is in the spec? Not up to date with it…)
<small> is in the HTML 4 standard already but is an inline tag not a block one.
Yep, the small element is still in spec:
Small element in html5 is defined as a way to represent “legalese describing disclaimers, caveats, legal restrictions, or copyrights. Small print is also sometimes used for attribution.”
Three paragraphs?
Maybe.
Bye!
That would be an incorrect use of that element type, though. <cite> marks up a citation: a specification of a source which you have referred to, quoted or paraphrased. For instance,
<p>In an interview in <cite>The New York Times</cite> today the president said ...</p>
The default rendering of <cite> in most browsers is italics, which corresponds to the typographic convention of italicising the names of newspapers and magazines, and the titles of books and other publications.
I’m sure you do, but you definitely haven’t understood the absolutely most principal fundamentals of it, viz. what the various technologies are meant for.
And if you believe that the purpose of <p> is to apply styling, then I have to wonder what you’ve been doing these 10 years.
HTML element types specify what bits of the content are and, to some degree, how they related to one another (through nesting). In other words, semantics and structure. They say nothing whatsoever about how things should be presented. Browsers have default styling for all element types and they are generally very similar across browsers, but that’s just a convenient side-effect.
A web designer/developer who only uses <div> is like a carpenter who only uses a hammer for everything. Yes, you can hammer in screws, you can perhaps break boards and planks by hitting them very hard, and you might even be able to make them smoother by rubbing them vigorously with your hammer. But using a screwdriver, a saw and a plane instead would (a) be much easier and faster and (b) give a far superior result.
…and it’s purpose in HTML 5 is different than in HTML 4.
Regarding the original question:
- Both HTML 4 and HTML 5 define the P element as representing a “paragraph”.
- HTML 4 doesn’t define what a “paragraph” is. It does not specifically link the P element with the stylistic and grammatical construct called a paragraph.
- HTML 5 does define what a “paragraph” is regarding the spec. The current specification text says small chunks of text that do not form a sentence (like your copyright notice example) may be marked with the P element.
Ok~ I think this crosses the line of my profession. How can you evaluate one person’s skill based on the simplest language HTML? This just tells me how ignorant you are. For HTML, I don’t even put that under my resume. Jeez~ Fine, let me say “YOU ARE THE BEST HTML PROGRAMMER”. Happy? 