Uhm, well actually I’ve always used the term “anti-social” with tongue in cheek. Antisocial personality disorder is, according to wikipedia, “…a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood.” A person like that is also known as a sociopath.
I’ve picked this term up because I’ve seen a number of people who don’t like social activities use it, but it’s actually not the best term to use, and I should stop using it. I don’t know what is the correct term for that condition/disorder, maybe it’s just a normal personal trait
It’s normal not to like certain social situations, I think. And it’s only a problem if it affects your life and/or career in a negative way.
You did very well for going ahead and stepping in nevermind coming through that the better for it :tup: well done!
I had a similiar situation happen to me, I had a group of 20 erm mature adults to talk about life skills to…little old me…I’m 29, what am I going to teach people twice my age about life? But yeah…you just get through it and what saved me was asking lots of questions on comments people made pertaining to certain topics we had to discuss plus a good sense of humour
I like to do things for myself, I’m no good at delegating unless I know the person is competent and well capable of doing what is required when asked…this is a big step for me to take, especially when it’s something really important! But I do take your point, perhaps this is something I should consider anyways regardless of my need to solve my own problems, atleast in the meantime someone could be selling/promoting for me…plus I can learn from them also :tup:
Eh, Ok…well perhaps that is the wrong term to use so…if you don’t socialise here in my neck of the woods you’re usually called “odd” but I’d rather be classed as being odd any day of the week which I am than be something I’m not! …:x
You may be right, Hazel. He is quite intelligent. However, I think his difficulty (and many people’s) lies in the fact that he is almost entirely superficial and present-oriented. He gives little, if any, thought to past events, a similar lack of consideration to future possibilities, and has no apparent interest in self-assessment of any sort whatsoever. His conversations about his topics of interest are entirely one-sided: what he does, what he likes, etc. He shows very little interest in what the other person does, and waits for the other guy to finish talking so he can get back to what interests him – the subject as it impacts him. Nothing outside of himself holds any interest for him at all. I think that a lot of people’s “social ineptitude” can be tracked back to a certain degree of narcissism.
Not that I want to turn this into a “my kid is a jerk” rant, but such self-involvement and self-obsession can, to my mind, dramatically limit a Web designer’s effectiveness (or anyone else’s) in a lot of different areas. A lot of designers try to shove their own ideas and conceptions down a client’s throat rather than try to understand what the client wants, and needs, and provide it for them in a way that suits their own, er, [idiom](http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene 27).
Yeah, yeah, I’ll believe it when you take us up on our offer of kitchen whiskey and fancy conversation. Mrs. Max can’t wait to make barbeque for you.
I wholeheartedly agree Max - I learned that quite quickly myself with regard to the vanity we sometimes suffer from - I read a book called How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie when I was in my teens and it helped me immensely both personally and on an interpersonal level. I must say that it really helped with how I interacted with people and made me quite astute as to how people work, act and behave!
I’ve never had a problem interacting with people, creating conversations or socialising on the whole. I guess my biggest problem is the kickstart or keeping a conversation going when it’s pertaining to a topic I don’t find interesting whatsoever! I just don’t have the social grace I need to have I guess in those circumstances…even with regard to socialising on a personal level, it’s just not something that’s in my make-up. If there’s a function I need to attend I instantly think, oh great… but I’ll still go and do it, then afterwards I’ll feel the better for it…I don’t know why I find it difficult to get started but perhaps over time, growth and reflection I’ll have that answer one day
I believe it’s a two way street when it comes to designer & client - you can’t be in this line of work without knowing the word compromise plus that the customer is always right, even when you know they’re wrong, if you want to make ends meet then you’ll have to go along with the flow, or if you’re lucky enough you can ditch it and move onto something else that you do believe in and want to work on… But yes he will have to learn a bit more about how people work before he can seriously considered this as his career path. How old is he Max just out of curiousity?
He’s 22, and has no interest in Web design per se. He’s more of a hardware guy. Again, not to bash him individually, but using him as an example, he has to decide that other people actually matter before he can learn how people work. In other words, he has to develop some basic empathy, i.e. “you shouldn’t kick someone because it hurts them, and their pain is real and meaningful.” A lot of the worst of the juvenile offenders I teach have this same problem – their pain is incredibly meaningful and should be addressed instantly, but your pain, or anyone else’s, is either meaningless or funny. Some Web designers don’t give a rip what a client wants – they know what they want to give that client (whether it’s something the client might conceivably want, or just a design the designer wants to do), and by God that’s what they’re going to do, client be damned. No sensitivity, no empathy. Not a good thing.
So in some sense, this social ineptitude can sometimes be a hindrance to a designer’s career.
Oh, he’s older than what I imagined I can see where you’re coming from - I’ve seen this behaviour also with socially excluded students I’ve dealt with before, they tend to be more confrontational or defensive but once they apply themselves they can work wonders - perhaps it’s more of a defence mechanism with him - he wants to show he knows what he’s talking about and his self worth by any means necessary even if it does hurt others, perhaps he feels under-appreciated or insecure really - it’s a difficult one to work out :confused2
I think in any job you’re going to need to have good people skills either way, whether it’s web design, stacking shelves or being a bus driver - people are everywhere and you’re going to have to interact one way or the other, whether you like it or not!
I guess another angle now that I think of it, is in terms of what you’re comfortable with… I mean I enjoy being on my own at times, I can quite contently mooch around town or sit around the house on my own for hours and not be bothered one bit - perhaps I’ve had too much of this sort of luxury and I’ve become stubborn over time unwilling to want to change or break out of that comfort zone/mould - who knows!
This is where a lot of web developers fail - social skills to sell themselves to potential clients. Fortunately, if transactions are purely done thru the internet, this lack of social skill might not become too glaring to become a disadvantage for the bashful web developer.
Interesting points, you guys. Based on what I’ve observed with my kid and with other people, it’s not just a lack of social skills that is cloaked by Internet contacts, but it’s a different way of socialization, a different schema if you will. What my son lacks in person he handles very well over the Internet, in e-mail, text, and chat. He has much more confidence and personality over Internet communications than he displays in person. I suspect this is the case with a lot of Web designers (and others) who spend much time and effort communicating electronically than they do “ftf.” (Ask anyone who’s spent months or years talking and laughing with this expressive, hysterically witty person on some forum, only to find that their Internet friend is, in person, an insecure clod who mumbles into his shirt and eats all of your French fries.)
It’s a conundrum in dealing with the truly narcissistic, asocial (as opposed to “anti-social”) personality. On the one hand, they are the ones who need to constantly remind themselves that other people are real, other people’s needs and desires count for something, other people’s opinions are valuable, etc. On the other hand, the narcissist doesn’t understand that to be true and therefore won’t put any value in such reminders, and won’t bother trying to empathize with clients or anyone else.
Of course, I know all of this at second hand. Between my incredible personality and stunning good looks, I’ve never experienced any of this whatsoever.
Off Topic:
Hazel, you probably imagined him as about 12. That’s not too far off of his emotional age…
I can easily deal with clients who approach me just to build their websites.
What I cannot do easily is networking with lots of people just for the sake of networking, with provider-client relationship expected at a latter date.
quite true but is it really a social skill - being a good sales person?
Yeah Max spot on, that’s how I imagined him, aged 12 - spooky!
I agree Max, even when you’re online you still have to be socialable whether your clients are online or offline, social skills still come into play…take these Forums for example, we’re all socialising, even now when we communicate back and forth on this thread, we need good communication skills in order to get our points across or request help, offer advice etc…
I agree that perhaps ultimately it boils down to a confidence issue, perhaps you’re more comfortable behind the scenes whereas you get nervous, shy away when it’s more personable, i.e. as you said face to face! It is funny how you build an image of someone from the net only to find out when you meet them they are nothing like their online persona! I’ve never really understood that, for me, I am always myself - if anything, I think I would be more sure of myself in person than online! But it’s funny when you think about the extremes some people go to just to be classed as being socialable - “a real people person” and “having lots of friends” (: I really can’t stand those types who talk the “social lingo”… obviously some terms they’ve learned out of self-help books and they adopt this silly “positive-fake smile-personality” and it’s just ridiculous, you can spot them a mile off! :x
I’m sure you’ve never had a problem Max… jeeze…what an ego!
That’s something I never want to do; networking just for the sake of it - I can’t be bothered to do all that - (a) because I’m no good at making small talk (b) I’m far too impatient, I’d rather spend my time working on something or having a meeting where things can move forward not wasting time chit-chatting - but this is my downfall - you can’t have one without the other - this social aspect seems to be key for “wining and dining” the client, making them feel important and in turn perhaps “hoping” you secure that contract you’ve been waiting for! :sick:
:scratch: I’ve worked in a sales position before and I lasted one day It was my first day in a computer store and this old woman came into the shop with her old ps2 mouse - she said it wouldn’t work for her anymore she purchased it in this store some time ago anyway, basically it just needed cleaning, so I cleaned it for her and she was delighted…next when she was gone the manager pulled me aside and asked what was I doing, I said helping a customer…and she said yeah but you should’ve flogged her a new mouse instead of fixing her old one…I said why, sure there wasn’t anything wrong with her old one the day got progressively worse, I used to be a customer there and the manager didn’t like me much asking questions about stuff she didnt’ know about (not deliberately, I figured she would’ve known seeing as it was her job) but I was hired over her head so as you can imagine, that was the beginning and ending of a beautiful one hit wonder job for me but hey, I wasn’t going to rip anyone off for no one, especially a lovely old lady
I have found that artists and developers can be famously anti-social - and I used to be the worst. It wasn’t until I realized that without strong networking skills and spending a lot of time on the phone, I would always be on the short end of the deal. I still do not like it - but it strikes me that that is the deal. It is easy to have a relationship with your computer - no risk.
Ironically you did the right thing. I suppose that shop wasn’t doing so well (or doing too well perhaps) if they completely disregard customer loyalty and word of mouth? Not only that would be bad customer service but bad marketing too. The manager should have been fired. Does that store still exist?
Oh my. What can I say… I’m not the one to judge. Go nuts, just beware of sharp parts. :<
Artists really? I would’ve always assumed they were quite social creatures really - interesting!
What type of networking skills did you acquire Greg? I find it hard to get kickstarted with something, did you find a way around this? I’m quite confident on the phone once I know what I’m talking about and I’m prepared otherwise I tend to say things I perhaps shouldn’t
I’m not sure about the relationship with your computer comment but yeah I guess you do get attached
Yeah it is still around but I’ve stopped lots of people going there for sure because of their customer service and high prices. The manager was fired soon after I left funnily enough. I have no regrets, I went onto teach after that so it was never going to be a permanent job for me! I learned lots from it though which stood to me over time :tup: I did feel better that I didn’t rip her off, I left there with a clear conscience and empty pocket
hehe @ not judging…come on Saul are you saying you aren’t in a relationship with your computer…it’s us…you can tell the truth
This is my first post here on the forum so hi everyone. I just wanted to join in as I myself am an INTJ and have the same issue. I’m very creative when it comes to designing and being social for other peoples companies however when it comes to going out to meet people at events or conferences I get very nervous and shy. Something I found that really helps me is carrying a book. One that has to do with what I do everyday, like social media or seo and when I start to feel nervous or shy about talking to someone sitting next to me at a conference or event I start to read in the book or I also use it as a conversation starter. such as excuse me have you read this book? I just got it and am finding some great tips and ideas for my business in it. Or asking if they know of any good books about the subject. Then i feel more comfortable about opening a conversation and exchanging contact info. Also bringing along a coworker or friend who is more extroverted to help me feel comfortable and at ease and bring some humor into serious events
But I do take your point, perhaps this is something I should consider anyways regardless of my need to solve my own problems, atleast in the meantime someone could be selling/promoting for me…plus I can learn from them also :tup:
but I’ll still go and do it, then afterwards I’ll feel the better for it…I don’t know why I find it difficult to get started but perhaps over time, growth and reflection I’ll have that answer one day 
quite true but is it really a social skill - being a good sales person?