Are today's major frameworks capable of enterprise capable applications?

[TomB]

@tony_marston404

I disagree. If I don’t have the problem that a particular feature or technique is supposed to solve, the implementing that “solution” would be a complete waste of time. Anyone with common sense should be able to see that.

Stop just stop. We’ve already been through this. You can use an autoloader, you chose not to, you can use DI, you chose not to. You made an alternative choice, the merits of the different approaches can be weighed up and analysed, and you always seem to fall on the side of the measurably worse choice.

@tony_marston404

Then by your definition my code has a great deal of flexibility as any one of my 40+ page controllers can be used with any one of my 300+ Model class without having to change a line of code. This is why with just 40 controllers I can generate an application with over 2,500 user transactions

The fact you have 2,500 of anything speaks volumes. If you need 2,500 variants of something, you’ve got repeated code there. Again though, it’s just anecdotes that have no substance. When it comes down to it, each time you’re asked you’re unable to provide anything with more substance than “40 controllers, 300 models lol”.

@tony_marston404

“Better” is not something which can be measured scientifically, it is simply a subjective observation.

100% Wrong. There are lots of ways to measure “better”: Performance, lines of code, readability, flexibility, portability, etc.

@tony_marston404

You seem to forget that you still need procedural code in order to instantiate the first object and call the first method. I use classes and objects where I can benefit from inheritance and polymorphism. Every one of my 300+ Model classes inherits from a single abstract class, and because each of my 40+ Controllers uses methods which are defined within the abstract class this means that every one of my 300+ Model classes can be called by any one of my 40+ Controllers.

Anecdotal.

@tony_marston404

I cannot point to a single document which identifies my best practices just as you cannot point to a single document which identifies yours.

You perpetually miss an important point: Best practices evolve out of tried/tested solutions. A “Best practice” emerges because professional programmers, language authors and academics try different solutions to the same problem and identify weaknesses/strengths in the approaches. The stronger approaches become “best practice” because they offer quantifiable benefits and the weak solutions become known as “bad practice” because they are actively detrimental to the codebase.

How many times must we go through this? Please stop playing the “LALALA Fingers in ears game”.

@tony_marston404

I disagree. I was forced to use unit testing by a new manager on one particular project, but it took much longer to build the tests than it did to write the code that was being tested. As I had been employed for my ability to provide quick solutions to ever-changing requirements, this ability was seriously compromised by this perceived “need” for unit testing. The company owner decided that my productivity was more important that unit tests, so he fired the new manager.

More irrelevant anecdotes.

@tony_marston404

The title of this discussion is “Are today’s frameworks capable of enterprise capable applications?” to which I have given my honest answer. A B2B enterprise application is a different kettle of fish than a B2C website, so it needs a different kind of framework. I have been writing enterprise applications in various for over 30 years, and I have built frameworks in three of those languages. I have used my latest PHP framework to build an enterprise application as a package, not bespoke, which went live with its first customer in 2008 and its latest customer this very year.

More irrelevant anecdotes… None of this matters one iota to the topic at hand.

@tony_marston404

I don’t adopt new techniques because they exist, I only adopt them when they have proven benefits in the type of application which I write.

As for not writing any code in the last 10 years you couldn’t be more wrong. The 89th release of my framework was made on the 5th of this month, and the latest release of my enterprise application was on the Sunday which has just passed.

Then you have had a chance to use modern techniques and actively chosen to avoid them. This is negligence as they would have provided measurable benefits (Faster development time, less buggy end result)

@tony_marston404

I repeat - inheritance has absolutely nothing to do with coupling, therefore it is quite wrong to say that inheritance automatically produces tight coupling.

And you again prove you don’t know what coupling is.

@tony_marston404

How is my code different from yours?

You cannot see that? How?? Default_Table is hardcoded, Your class will always extend the default table class… Again, go and learn about coupling as it’s clear you don’t understand it.

@tony_marston404

ou did not prove that I was wrong, you simply proved that you do not understand the problem for which DI is the solution, even after I pointed you to Robert C. Martin’s original article which clearly shows that DI has benefits only where a dependency can be provided from one of several sources. I use DI in my framework where that situation exists for the simple reason that I have never seen an alternative approach which is as effective and as flexible. Where a dependency can only come from a single source which will never be changed then DI is complete overkill and entirely inappropriate, so where that situation exists in my framework then I do not use DI.

I’m not getting into this again, I repeatedly proved your incompetence in the other thread, go read that.

@tony_marston404

If you stop attacking my code I will stop defending it. If you stop attacking my methods simply because they are different from yours then I will stop defending them.

Then stop citing it. 90% of your remarks start with “My code”, “My framework”, “I don’t…”. Someone says “Singletons are bad” and you respond with “I use them in my framework so no they’re not!!!”