Feedback: Shorten line length for a more comfortable reading measure

Hey guys!

I think discourse is a great web application, particularly on mobile, for bulletin boards. I would like to offer a suggestion though for the desktop breakpoints. The line length is just too long, I’d like to see the container element changed to something around 700px. Here’s some articles discussing reading measure and web design that are applicable. I think this change would greatly improve overall readability of the message board.
Fluid Type by Trent Walton
The Elements of Typographic style Applied to the web

Would be nice if it was user configurable. There’s already too much white space for my comfortable.

Funny enough I quite remember that discussion coming back up with @HAWK, not sure @Ophelie is aware of it, but it was my understanding that the layout of topics may change back to a smaller width at some point.

I’ll let @Ophelie talk more on if she has heard anything similar.

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To be honest, I like it the way it is but this is, of course, my personal preference. I’d rather have longer lines (as long as they fit the screen) and scroll less often.

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It suits me pretty well, too. My monitor is only 1280px wide, though; I don’t know if the lines get longer beyond that size, in which case it could be a problem. (But then, I could always resize my browser window. )

Lines appear to max out at 1030px for me when I stretch the webpage through 2x monitors.

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Thanks.

in that case, I’m viewing it at the maximum length, and I like it as it is. Of course, I’ve never claimed to be typical…

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I must admit I’m used to it as it is, but I used to have a custom style sheet that made the lines shorter, among other things. Sometimes I nowadays bump up the text size quite a bit, so that the the text is easier to read and wraps better. Other days, I narrow the browser window.

I love this feature of the web and browsers—that you aren’t stuck with what you are given.

I like it fine the way it is here.

If the lines were shortened, what would replace the whitespace, advertisements?

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

[camera zooms backwards to outside of building]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

[camera zooms backwards to view of city]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

[camera zooms backwards to overhead view of country]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

[camera zooms backwards to view of Earth]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[camera zooms forward to WolfShade sitting at desk]

Ahem… please.

V/r,

:slight_smile:

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Current line length is fine for me as well, if I want it smaller I can bump up my font size or make the browser window narrower.

I take the point about ideas on line length, and while that’s great for longer articles I’m not totally convinced by it. Longer lines lengths (eg 100-150 characters) are very common on the web and if it was that much of a problem for the majority I think we would have known by now.

Not sure if Discourse supports themes/skins like common forums/bb’s but one possibility would be to add a option for standard or “easy reading” presentations?

It does support it but it is tricky.

I definitely like it how it is.

As the “devil’s advocate”, if one prefers it smaller, “shrink your window” is a terrible solution - I use tabbed browsing, and this forum needs to be easily buried in my tabs. I need larger windows for some work, so if I made the window smaller just to suit this tab, I’d be constantly shifting it as I switched between tabs, or forced to have yet another window open just for Sitepoint.

If there’s to be a change, I’d definitely like to see a user configurable option - even between “Narrow columns” and “Wide columns” or something generic like that, two choices.

But for what it’s worth, I prefer it exactly how it is right now :wink:

Right Right, soooo this is an interesting topic for me, as I am the one that has to maintain these forums.

Right now the biggest pain point in keeping these forums as up to date as possible is this page, interestingly enough most of said pain is a direct result of us making this page have a full width layout.

In base discourse, for those that dont know, the topic page looks like this:

We on the other hand have taken that right column, and moved it under each post and made the content full width. The thing is, the way we did this (before my time) is quite hacky and not really well done. That area still has the same width as the right hand column in meta, and the more that happens to a post, it just stacks there on the bottom right. Not even close to an ideal solution.

To understand why this is an issue for keeping our forums up to date, you need to understand how the plugins work. The plugins allow us to replace templates with our own version, it sort of works like overriding the base template. When the base discourse template changes, we have to go through and compare our custom template and the base template, line by line, to make sure we include all the new things that you all are so keen on :stuck_out_tongue: The template for this page is one of the largest and one of the most complex. And the only reason we still need this custom template is to keep the full width layout. Issues where we have missed minor things have included, not rendering the page at all, i18n issues, buttons not working, not being able to bring up the user cards when you click on an avatar, just to name a few. Luckily we get incredible support from the forum staff and these are usually discovered on our staging servers well before the masses get a chance to see them.

From my perspective this page adds substantial time every time I upgrade the forums to the latest and greatest features. It brings down my confidence in our upgrade process. It adds additional time for our forum staff, and us when they find the inevitable bugs. The time we spend dealing with this sort of thing also removes time we can spend on implementing other features and fixes as we only get so much agreed on time per iteration to work on forum stuff. Not to mention all the messed up mobile version pain this inadvertently causes. The easiest and quickest code to maintain is the code that doesn’t exist.

TL;DR The old two column layout:

  • Makes my life easier,
  • Costs SitePoint less money
  • You get upgrades quicker and new features sooner
  • Forum staff can worry less about us breaking things as we aren’t touching as many things.
  • Easier for your eyes to track and read shorter line lengths (Heaps of case studies and reports done on this)

Sort of funny how one little change can cause so much headache eh. If you have the choice between a full width layout, and us fixing bugs/adding needed features to make the community a better place, is the full width still worth it?

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If you have the choice between a full width layout, and us fixing bugs/adding needed features to make the community a better place, is the full width still worth it?

Coming from someone who just said they like the full width layout - No. It’s definitely not worth it, if there’s that kind of overhead involved. The people in my camp will/should deal with the tradeoff :wink:

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@orodio I love the look but if it is so hard to maintain and Discourse is not really that flexible… Is it really worth it?

Honestly, if it is worth it or not is not my choice :stuck_out_tongue: If you guys want the full width you get the full width, because @Ophelie loves you :stuck_out_tongue: Just know, like in all things development and life there are consequences, and priorities. At least you have all the info though :smile:

:thumbsup: for transparency :stuck_out_tongue:

edit: when I re-read this it sounded so mean, i so didnt mean for it to sound mean or jaded or anything. Im honestly quite happy making/doing/implementing anything you all want. But like, only so many hours in a day, and the forums are only a small part of my job.

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I like the wider post content. But it isn’t top priority for me and I could learn to live with the abundant whitespace.

IMHO I would like to see the crippled Mod pages fixed before having time spent tweaking cosmetics

It didn’t sound mean to me - just honest. Anyway, we know you and we know you’re a nice guy.

[quote=“Mittineague, post:18, topic:112658”]
I like the wider post content. But it isn’t top priority for me and I could learn to live with the abundant whitespace.
[/quote]Same here. What I don’t want is buttons, links, etc. which only become visible on mouseover, or as you scroll.

I think that is purely a CSS change, so it shouldn’t be affected with the width change.