HTML & CSS
Not really a technical issue just wondering about your way of thinking and if you bother using SASS, or LESS for that matter.
Until about 5 months ago I'd never really used any CSS preprocessor's until I started using SASS, a company I was working for was heavily involved using SASS within their development teams. Only now after I've stopped working there, I've kind of slipped back into using plan old CSS. Maybe by habit though the benefits and speed of using a CSS preprocessor seems to be a no-brainer.
Is anybody using CSS preprocessor's? If not, why? What are your views?
Doesn't seem to be much talk of SASS amongst the forums.
I'm afraid I don't use either and it all seems like to much effort to me. It seems like something programmers have introduced just to annoy people like me
I don't use either and it all seems like to much effort to me
That's exactly what I thought at first, and maybe the reason I haven't carried on using it... to much work.
Personal preference a suppose, though I did quite like the nesting capabilities, @include's amongst other things.
It seems like something programmers have introduced just to annoy people like me
Made me laugh
Though, if companies are using SASS/LESS and they expect you to use it on site, what can you do.
I use to work with developers who would laugh at people using CSS, never going back... SASS is the way forward.
Each to their own
Yes, I can see its usefulness on large sites and if that's what is already being used then I guess you have no choice. I still see them writing bad code that doesn't work or can't be debugged easily. It allows them to produce bad code in half the time lol
I know @markbrown4 swears by it so I guess I'm being old fashioned. I'll have to dive in and have a look when I have a week or two spare but the home page is enough to frighten me away (try looking at the home page with js turned off).
I can see its usefulness on large sites and if that's what is already being used then I guess you have no choice
Yes, mainly for the very large sites especially if these numerous developers working on different sections (different .sass files) which then complied into the global.sass. Exactly how I was working in the last company, can be very convenient once you get your head around the company workflow.
I still see them writing bad code that doesn't work or can't be debugged easily
Ha, yes seen a lot of that. Write. Compile. Compress. Most of the time nobody even see's the CSS file, never mind make any edits to it.
There's a handy add-on for FF which pin points the errors/code within the SASS file (at dev stage that is), though won't bore you with the ins and outs. Something you can look forward to once you get past the homepage Paul
I guess I'm being old fashioned
On the contrary, everybody has their own way of doing things, whatever works best for yourself/the team.
In conclusion, I think:
Personal, small/medium sized sites = CSS
Large sites, big CMS's with multiple developers = LESS/SASS
SASS is amazing and absolutely worthwhile for every single project no matter the size, as it lets you write better code, period.
Nesting and includes alone allow you to be structure your files in a way that makes sense and keep components all tidy and self enclosed.
Certain features like variables and nesting are already being spec'd for future versions of CSS so they agree it's a better way to write code too.
I don't always use a preprocessor, but when I do I drink Dos Equis.
Actually, of the two I would favour SASS. This is mainly because I go through such pains to make my native CSS code .js independent that it would be backwards to need .js (LESS is a .js).
Predecessors are 'neat' as they do save you the hassle of remembering/ retyping vendor stuff, mixings are quite useful and as are variables, but most importantly if you are working in a large team it simplifies the process. That is Variables and mixins can act as sort of a poor man's OOCSS, so other members of the teams aren't changing just random parts of the style sheet but actually affecting the whole thing by merely changing a few lines of code on a mixing or a value on a variable.
But really, other than that, when I am solo I prefer native CSS
Never felt the need of LESS or SASS.
No it's not. There is a .js compiler for LESS but that's not recommended or common use. Both can and should be processed server-side.
My thoughts exactly.
SASS is an excellent tool, however, like with any tool, the output is only as good and solid as the coder applying it. I don't see any harm in it because the output is 100% in your control. Give that power to someone who hasn't a clue about CSS and the result can quickly become the same mess as we see when people who know nothing about JS use libraries.
With that said, I love SASS and use it on all my projects. I have my own little set of placeholders, mixins, and variables that I refactor over and over again which can be quite a time-saver.
As you said, the advantages can be plenty. One huge disadvantage, and that's a malady that isn't exclusive to SASS, is that everyone uses a different set of standards and practices. This adds unnecessary layers of problems when it comes to working on someone else's code. You don't just have the the issue of maintainability, flexibility, and best practices that may vary from your own in terms of CSS, but now you have to adjust your standards to match that of someone else's SASS as well. And when a third-party uses Compass or Bourbon with yet another set of additional layers, rules, and practices, then it can quickly become a very annoying experience...
I realize that people are currently proposing some kind of standards as a remedy. However, just like with CSS, I don't see how there can ever be a consensus on what is the "right way" to doing something, so I'm not positive that these efforts will go anywhere.
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