JavaScript Books Help

[felgall]

@markbrown4

Whilst I agree with what you have written, my advice was not to use a library.

I agree about not using a library - since once you have a proper understanding of JavaScript you don’t need to.

My comment was with regard to those people who decide to use one anyway. Without a reasonable knowledge of JavaScript first they will just get into a mess since they wont understand their own code.

Either way Andrew has made the right decision by not wanting to get side tracked into looking at libraries.

[AndrewCooper]

@felgall

That’s the right approach. You can’t use a library such as jQuery properly without a good understanding of JavaScript first. Those who try usually end up in a mess because they are using advanced processing when they don’t understand the basics.

Yea I know pretty much everyone is talking about JavaScript libraries right now and loads of books are being published on them but that doesn’t mean everyone should just go ahead and use JS libraries rather than learn JS from scratch first. To be honest, I don’t see myself ever using a JavaScript library, I think I’d just write a huge library of JS scripts myself and use them whenever I need to. I’m that way inclined - making my life harder than it needs to be!

@Stomme_poes

Totally agreed, felgall. I’ve gotten as many suggestions as Andrew to try jQuery. Crawl before walking, even if walking is easier.

On a serious note, now that I think of it, who says crawling is a bad thing? Let’s face it, crawling when we were babies was just awesome. Babies are special (in the nice way) (: Crawl > Walk > Run. JavaScript > JS Libraries > Create your own uber-awesome and famous JS Library.

@Stomme_poes

Cause they’re damn hard. Why are they hard? For the same reason I can’t do math in my head: I cannot hold “empty” placeholders and still remember them when I get to the end. I hear this can be improved with practise, but I was always the kid who needed to do it on paper, or use my fingers lawlz. I can keep the factorial one in my head but once I get to something like the typical “reduce”/“fold” it’s more than I can keep straight at the moment.

Yea, I’m rubbish with Maths both in my head and on paper I haven’t actually gone over recursion yet, so you can say the same for me when I complain about learning it

@pmw57

You’ll find that the Head First book is a better one to read before the Definitive Guide. The former one gives you a running start, by giving you interesting and entertaining concepts with which to help you learn the overall shape of the landscape. The latter one is incredibly detailed and helps to fill in any gaps of knowledge that you might have had, but it’s heavy going indeed and reminds me of a dry and dusty tome.

By the sounds of it I’m going to love both of them! I can’t wait to start reading these fantastic JavaScript books!..Come on Amazon! Get your butt in gear!

@babyboy808

I have to chime in here and ask the OP a question.

You have 5 books on JavaScript already and are buying another 5???

If you can’t learn from the ones you own already, what makes you think you can learn from more books?

Because I don’t find the current 5 that I have as being sufficient. The only book I’ve actually found useful is Jeremy Keith’s DOM Scripting book, in fact that book has been a great read so far, but I’m sure a professional would need to know more than 300 (and odd) pages worth of a book to become a professional JavaScript coder.

I can write HTML & CSS off by heart, probably thanks to doing it for the past 2 - 3 years and I now just validate my code when I’ve finished a Web page because I’m so confident that my markup and CSS will validate, and 9 / 10 it does, errors I usually get will be a missing trailing slash or something, so I’d say I’m pretty competent in HTML & CSS. I’d like to say the same for my JavaScript knowledge and skills in around 1 or 2 years time - I don’t think Simply JavaScript and The Art & Science of JavaScript alone would help me do this.

I’ve learned a lot from each of the 5 books I have. But I know myself that there’s more to JavaScript than the 5 books I have which is why before I buy anymore books on JavaScript I’ve asked for help from the SitePoint community on which books are the best for giving me as much knowledge on JavaScript that I’ll need.

@pmw57

Because every book approaches the topic from its authors on particular point of view. Do not fall in to the trap of thinking that you’ve learned all there is after reading a few books. The basics may be the same, but after that it’s in their own individual details that they really shine.

Yup, I agree. There currently isn’t any one particular book on the market for HTML, CSS, JS or PHP & MySQL that covers every single point a beginner would need to know to become a professional. It doesn’t help especially when the books you have aren’t the right books for you.

@markbrown4

I highly recommend them.
Don’t get into the trap of reading for the sake of reading - It will actually prevent you from really absorbing the content of future books and hinder your learning.
Every good book requires at least three readings, once fast, one very thorough reading (taking notes, experimenting) and another quick read.

I understand what you’re saying and agree. I often re-read some chapters in books just to refresh my memory and keep it fresh in my mind for a good few months. Thanks for the tip though Mark.

@felgall

Either way Andrew has made the right decision by not wanting to get side tracked into looking at libraries.

Andrew Cooper

[JREAM]

I’d suggest learning a Javascript Framework API such as JQuery, Mootools, Prototype, Django, etc - as they’ll save you a lot of time in the end.

[Paul_Wilkins]

@JREAM

I’d suggest learning a Javascript Framework API such as JQuery, Mootools, Prototype, Django, etc - as they’ll save you a lot of time in the end.

There is little point though in learning the framework before you know much of JavaScript.

Imagine having a child from grade 3 learn how to use calculus. They might be able to use it to solve some problems, but without a background knowledge of maths they cannot know what it’s supposed to solve, nor will they be able to apply it when other fundamental techniques they should have learned need to be incorporated as well.

Frameworks do save time when you understand how to apply them, and in what circumstances. If you haven’t experienced beforehand the issues that frameworks solve, you are at risk of trying to do foolish things. For example, demanding “I want my framework to add two numbers together from a form.” The subtext being that you’re too scared to learn how to achieve that with JavaScript because you have come to expect your framework to perform most, if not all, of the heavy lifting for you.

[Stomme_poes]

I’ve seen entire libraries (sometimes two: jQuery AND prototype) on a web site who do nothing more than a lightbox, or to validate a simple contact form. I’ve seen them simply to make IE6 hover. Seriously. It was like assembling the mighty militant barbaric hordes of the Nations to kick a puppy off the edge of a cliff.

[AndrewCooper]

@JREAM

I’d suggest learning a Javascript Framework API such as JQuery, Mootools, Prototype, Django, etc - as they’ll save you a lot of time in the end.

As I’ve previously said to others, I don’t want anything to do with JavaScript Frameworks / Libraries at the moment. I thought I had made myself clear - I’m learning JavaScript from the ground up without the help of JS Libraries. To me, at the moment, JS Libraries don’t exist. So don’t preach about them to me please

@Blake_Tallos

I’m liking this thread

It’s very helpful isn’t it?

@Stomme_poes

I’ve seen entire libraries (sometimes two: jQuery AND prototype) on a web site who do nothing more than a lightbox, or to validate a simple contact form. I’ve seen them simply to make IE6 hover. Seriously. It was like assembling the mighty militant barbaric hordes of the Nations to kick a puppy off the edge of a cliff.

I’ve seen exactly the same thing. It’s a bit silly I think (personally). You have a whole library - or two, linked to a Web page which does a simple thing that you could just write in JS yourself, without the need of a JS Library and it would probably be less hassle. I don’t know what I’m talking about actually, I’m just talking a load of dribble. At least, I personally would prefer to write a simple form validation script than use a JS Library. That’s just me.

I’ve got my nice list of JavaScript books that I’m going to order and the help I’ve received in this thread has been tremendous! I really appreciate it a lot! I think the “issue” in this thread has been “resolved” though and I don’t see why we should carry on the discussion! – Unless somebody else wants some advice on the same issue, I’m sure if they read the whole thread then they’d be helped out a lot too.

Thanks again peeps! I’ll get some heavy JavaScript reading and studying done over the coming months and I guess we’ll see the results of these reading and experimenting sessions in the form of future Websites I build!

Andrew Cooper

[satya_prakash]

somewhere i read about this:

Object-Oriented JavaScript
Packt publishing
Author: Stoyan Stefanov.

[felgall]

@satya_prakash

somewhere i read about this:

Object-Oriented JavaScript
Packt publishing
Author: Stoyan Stefanov.

That book does cover JavaScript from an entirely different viewpoint than any of the other books previously mentioned and so would make a worthwhile addition to anyone’s collection of JavaScript books.

[Stomme_poes]

Hm, that book mentions AJAX, goes over JSON, and goes through Crockford’s private properties and methods techniques…
Ha, Amazon offers it with Good Parts and Rhino for $83 as a group package thingie. Lawlz. Andrew, do you live in a dollar-country?

The “worst” review from Amazon seems unhappy that it’s for beginners (which is stated on Packt’s book description):

@"a reviewer on Amazon"

The book is very well written and contains a lot of great information, but if you’re looking to learn how “Create scalable, reusable high-quality javascript applications and libraries”, it is nearly useless. There were a total of two chapters that I found useful to a non-novice. One covered inheritance options in incredible details (which is great, since there are so many), and the last chapter gives lip service to covering common OO patterns with javascript. That’s about it. “Introduction to creating objects and simple OO patterns in Javascript” would have been a much more apt title.

Sounds like a book I may want in a few months, depending on what I end up doing with JS.

[AndrewCooper]

@Stomme_poes

Hm, that book mentions AJAX, goes over JSON, and goes through Crockford’s private properties and methods techniques…
Ha, Amazon offers it with Good Parts and Rhino for $83 as a group package thingie. Lawlz. Andrew, do you live in a dollar-country?

The “worst” review from Amazon seems unhappy that it’s for beginners (which is stated on Packt’s book description):

Sounds like a book I may want in a few months, depending on what I end up doing with JS.

Lawlz Stomme, thanks for the heads up! Amazon.co.uk does that book, Good Parts and Pro JavaScript Techniques for £52! Buuuuut I don’t want that cause I ain’t a Pro at JavaScript.

I checked for Good Parts and then Rhino and they both have the same offer of them two together for £32 which is a fairly good deal! I want to order them both right now…But I’ll have to wait until May for the next edition of the Rhino book! It’s hard not to click Order!

On the other hand, when I check the Rhino (6th Edition; May 2010) it costs a lot more than the current edition (Go figure!) so it’ll cost me around £44 for the Rhino book and Good Parts! It’s a price I’m willing to pay for two of the best books on JavaScript though!

I checked Amazon.com for the same deal you mentioned and I can’t use my bank card for it! But I’ll go have a chat with ze bank of Dad! Hehe

I should have some money in my bank now though cause I just cleared a huge £15 debt to iTunes! Soooo I’m thinking I’ll order Head First JavaScript today and I’ll get it by 1:00PM tommorow! Brilliant!

Andrew Cooper

[RLM2008]

Andrew,

Over the last few months, I’ve picked up various javascript books so like you I can get to grips with scripting. Likewise frameworks have been put on the backburner.

Being that it’s been a long long time since I was last at school, I’ve also picked up a couple of books on Algebra. Headfirst Algebra and algebra II for dummies.

I need to give those a bit more time and attention, but I think they are certainly a worthy addition.

Another book to add to the list, albeit advanced and one for the future is Pro Javascript Patterns. Certainly an interesting read, and about the only book I’ve seen so far that covers patterns like chaining in any sort of detail.

RLM

[Paul_Wilkins]

I’ve heard that The Book Depository does free shipping to most location around the globe, including New Zealand where I am.

Let’s compare Amazon to The Book Depository when ordering the three afore-mentioned books. For the sake of consistency, I’ll use US dollars here.

Amazon
31.49 The Definitive Guide
19.79 The Good Parts
31.57 Object-Oriented JavaScript
82.85 Subtotal

24.95 Standard International Shipping (cheapest)
102.81 Total

The Book Depository
37.68 The Definitive Guide
24.11 The Good Parts
39.44 Object-Oriented JavaScript
101.23 Total

So it’s clear to me that even when the costs of Amazon shipping is spread across 3 books, that The Book Depository is the preferred place to go.

[ralphm]

I’ve got several JS books, and the only one I’ve successfully waded through so far is Keith’s DOM Scripting one, which is masterful.

I also have Scriptin’ by Wyke-Smith, which I bought because I liked his CSS book, but I don’t like this one much, so I’m pleased you removed it from your list. It tries to cover too much, gets into Ajax far too early in the book, and seems to dive blindly into jQuery too. A bit of a hotch-potch.

I might check out the Head First book, but I’ve avoided it because I find their other books far too chatty and fluffy… even though I appreciate the theory behind that approach. (Gawd, sometimes whole pages are full of fluff and whitespace… too much!)

[Jason__C]

A book I am reading currently, Beginning JavaScript - by WROX, is a very, very good book. Also, very new, released within the past 3 months.

[RLM2008]

Any advice on books for design patterns?

I’ve been reading bits of Javascript Patterns and Pro Javascript Design Patterns, and it’s very interesting. The only real issue is I’m still not sure where and when to use these patterns.

The gang of four has been mentioned a few times in Javascript patterns and an amazon search comes up with Design patterns : elements of reusable object-oriented software and Head First Design Patterns.

Would these be worth a purchase? I realise that they’re more geared at classical inheritance.

RLM

[Paul_Wilkins]

@RLM2008

The gang of four has been mentioned a few times in Javascript patterns and an amazon search comes up with Design patterns : elements of reusable object-oriented software and Head First Design Patterns.

Would these be worth a purchase? I realise that they’re more geared at classical inheritance.

I must admit that the Head-First series is very good at presenting the information with easy to understand concepts.

One of the benefits of design patterns is that they are highly portable. Once you understand the concept for each pattern and why it’s used, you can apply that as and where needed.

The only issue is that javascript is not a class-based language, it’s a functional one instead. So getting a good grounding with some easy to understand patterns from Head-First, and then refining that knowledge with a javascript specific book is I think a good idea.

[RLM2008]

Cheers for that pwm57. Your comments make a lot of sense.

RLM

[sheferd]

Sorry if its waaay to late to post here but didnt feel my question required a whole new thread…

I have recently aquired javascript the definitive guide 4th ed ( thinking it was 5th ed but oh well it was very cheap). It covers upto js 1.5 but my question is whether this book is too far out of date to learn from or will the bulk of it still be relevant. I am a complete beginner so only need this book for the basics untill the 6th ed.

Thanks

[Paul_Wilkins]

You’ll be fine with that 4th edition. The 4th book’s page has errata info and other changes, which may be of help too.

[satya_prakash]

@sheferd

Sorry if its waaay to late to post here but didnt feel my question required a whole new thread…

I have recently aquired javascript the definitive guide 4th ed ( thinking it was 5th ed but oh well it was very cheap). It covers upto js 1.5 but my question is whether this book is too far out of date to learn from or will the bulk of it still be relevant. I am a complete beginner so only need this book for the basics untill the 6th ed.

Thanks

That book read is best bet on JS learning according to my research on net. Almost everyone agrees on that book as a text book.