PHP Dev call - All who are active, how would you rank your skill level?

[myesain84]

This was in Versioning a few months back (I think) and provides a pretty good clarification of 3 levels of developers:

http://mattbriggs.net/blog/2015/06/01/the-role-of-a-senior-developer

One quote from the article that I think is spot on:

A senior developer understands that leadership is not about power, it is about empowerment. It is not about direction, it is about serving.

[oddz]

@myesain84

A senior developer understands that leadership is not about power, it is about empowerment. It is not about direction, it is about serving.

Senior developer is not the same as a php expert. In fact most of the time seniors get to a point where they can no longer really be considered expert in x language as they take on more leadership and project management role. So I completely disagree as I think the php expert is the one who is responsible for banging out code first and foremost. Furthermore, senior level role implies intimate knowledge of business processes in play which has nothing to do being an expert in php alone.

[myesain84]

@oddz Can you clarify your position regarding this? Perhaps it’s just the terminology difference between the discussion being had here and the terminology provided in the article I linked to.

In one post you provide examples on what differentiates a guru level developer:

@oddz

One of the key points I agree with is that to be considered a Guru one goes beyond just working for clients. They assist others contributing back to the community via sharing knowledge in the form or writings and/or code to well known open source projects.

What is it you are accomplishing by sharing your knowledge if not empowering others to better themselves. Are you not serving the community by contributing to open-source projects?

Of the three levels described in the article I linked to, the “Senior Developer” referenced in the quotation would roughly translate to the “Guru” level in this discussion.

Here is a quote from that article that I believe roughly translates to the “Expert” level in this discussion:

A good intermediate developer needs less supervision. They can be trusted to raise issues of code design, and play a valuable role in design discussions. They are also the “workhorses” of the dev team.

which correlates nicely with one of your comments regarding “Expert” level developers:

@oddz

I think the php expert is the one who is responsible for banging out code first and foremost

I apologize if the terminology difference caused any confusion. I think all in all, my opinion is the same as your own regarding levels of expertise, especially this:

@oddz

I stand firm on my belief that anyone who has worked on PHP projects in isolation but has RARELY made contribution(s) to the global ecosystem can only EVER be considered an expert REGARDLESS of 10 or 20 years experience with the language.

[oddz]

I was saying that “Senior” and “Expert” or “Guru” are not the same thing. You can be an “Expert” and even a “Guru” but not hold a “Senior” position at place of employment. case and point it is acceptable to say you are an Expert php developer on a resume but unless you have a “Senior” title at you’re current place of employment than it would not to say you are a “Senior”. Senior roles are given to those with experience and thorough understanding of business processes in an environment outside of programming not necessarily an “expert” or “guru” in any language.

[myesain84]

Again, I hold that this is a terminology difference. If you haven’t read the article I linked, doing so may provide some insight to how I am agreeing with everything you’ve said :). The term “Senior Developer” as used in that article doesn’t relate at all to the job title you’d hold at an organization, but rather to your progress through the stages of software developer growth.

[s_molinari]

Hmm…I could swear I saw 26 votes the other day.

And even then, that is a weaker showing, than I would have imagined.

Scott

[jeffreylees]

You’re at thirty now, least that’s what I see. To be honest, that’s more than I would’ve bet on. You have to account for how many PHP devs on SitePoint, then how many of those actively read threads often enough to catch it, then how many of those would care to read this thread, then how many of those would respond…

[s_molinari]

That is interesting. I posted my last post about the numbers from my ipad. Now I go to my computer and the number is 30. Something isn’t kosher about that.

Scott

[TomB]

I’d stick myself in the Guru category. Although your categories are somewhat arbitrary. I’d argue that beyond “Expert” level, PHP has little to nothing to do with further skills which rely more heavily on OOP Theory than anything related specifically to PHP.

[chrisofarabia]

I know just enough to be dangerous - practically, that means I can open the files and change things…

[s_molinari]

@TomB

Although your categories are somewhat arbitrary.

Yeah, the pole and its choices were more just for amusement to get the number of active devs. It’s nothing scientific at all.

Scott

[s_molinari]

@chrisofarabia

I know just enough to be dangerous

I think that is where I am at too. The important thing is, to know you are dangerous and not any better than that and to keep your mind open to learning more and more.

Scott

[cpradio]

Hey @s_molinari, Just an FYI, I moved all of the Title Change conversation to

Why was the Title on my Topic Changed - PHP Dev Call

And why was my title edited? Scott

I simply wanted to let your topic be unencumbered by the off topic discussion (as it got a bit in-depth and that way this topic will actively be for its original intent).

[s_molinari]

@cpradio

I simply wanted to let your topic be unencumbered by the off topic discussion (as it got a bit in-depth and that way this topic will actively be for its original intent).

Thanks. Good move. Just one more to move. Then I can reply. LOL!

Scott

[s_molinari]

Cool. 40 devs here and half are intermediate. Hmm…I wonder if that could also be an indication of the level of self-assessed knowledge in the PHP community in general?

Scott

[WebMachine]

I think probably it is - pretty close to a normal distribution here. I would think that the beginner devs wouldn’t stay that way for long (always learning and seeking to improve their skills will soon move them into the intermediate category) or they would stop being part of the “php community”. At the other end, from what others are saying, it seems to be next to impossible to move from intermediate to being in the expert, guru and god-like categories. So the bulk of php devs will always be in the intermediate level.