Should we tell the * to F*** off? :-o

I think there are two different questions here.

1 - Should websites allowing user-generated content censor that content and ‘bleep out’ words deemed to be offensive?

2 - Should people writing content self-censor their own content by bleeping out words deemed to be offensive or should they not write those words in the first place? Why is it supposedly less offensive to say ‘f***’ or ‘the f-word’ than to say the word in full? Everyone knows what the word is, so either go for it and write the word out, or keep it completely out of your text … but don’t go for the mealy-mouthed “I want to be offensive but I’m too scared so I’m going to pretend that this isn’t” asterisks.

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Why is it supposedly less offensive to say ‘f***’ or ‘the f-word’ than to say the word in full? Everyone knows what the word is, so either go for it and write the word out, or keep it completely out of your text … but don’t go for the mealy-mouthed “I want to be offensive but I’m too scared so I’m going to pretend that this isn’t” asterisks.

That. Exactly. One way or the other. I have family members who are constantly on with the “darn it” and “shiiiiiiaaaaaatt” and “frickin” and “poo” and a dozen others. Clear substitutes, clearly we all know what you mean… the word itself is no more distasteful, and your self-censorship only draws more attention to it, in my opinion. But I’m just one individual.

This is where censorship needs to be defined by the people not a corporation or government to work correctly. But that also requires that people are able to control themselves, which time and again we fail to do.

If there is no censorship why would i bother with any form of politeness. Taken to it’s extreme why shouldn’t i walk into the local tesco’s and get to the til and if the person serving is being slow say 'hurry the F**k up you stupid lazy ‘tw*t’. We all self censor to a certain extent or society would collapse (perhaps).

@StevieD you make an interesting point in 2. personally i probably wouldn’t write it to start with. But as @jeffreylees says i would substitute other words if i hit my hand for example. But i have nephews etc around that may learn these words (well learn them sooner than normal) so it is a release of anger without trying to offend others.

I think that substituting another word, even if it sounds vaguely similar, in speech (or writing) is a lot less dishonest than bleeping out a word that you have written.

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It’s less dishonest, perhaps, but it’s still silly, in my book. (I do it too, again, socially, but I think it’s absurd since everyone knows what’s meant).

That’s an off-scope argument, though.

The debate,the way I understand it, is whether you should say something like “Hurry up, you incompetent idiot!” versus your 'hurry the F**k up you stupid lazy ‘tw*t’

That is what politeness and society mean to me - choosing to say neither.

In a situation where the exclamation is appropriate, using a word that’s considered to be vulgar versus one that is not simply makes no difference to me.

Just because one doesn’t censor particular words that are synonymous with perfectly acceptable words does not mean one loses all sense of society, propriety, and reason.

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Politeness is a different issue. You could walk into tesco and say ‘hurry up you stupid lazy vermin excrement’, and it would achieve the same thing with the exception of no swear words.

To counter, going back to the guy who gets attacked by a crocodile and shouts “F*** help me, I’m being F***ing eaten”, is he being rude and impolite? Or effectively expressing emotional desperation?

yes i think i’ve gone off on a tangent…

back to the main point…
@RT_ i can’t say for sure, as i’ve not been in that type of situation, but i would think that i wouldn’t bother using the swear words as it that situation they would be superfluous. It wouldn’t be a politeness thing just that if i was in real danger i think i would probably just shout ‘help me i’m being eaten’ as that would be the quickest message to get the point across.

If i had just fallen in a sewer and raw sewage was pouring over me i would probably resort to ‘fking help me, i’m covered in St’ as i would be needing to make it clear that i was not happy,

I guess it all comes down to context and company present as mentioned, in an open forum that children or whoever can read i guess it is seen as polite not to write the full word.

I’m a bit old fashioned with much of my thinking (despite not being that old) but each to his own i guess :slight_smile:

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I know it isn’t a popular opinion but I see no problem in children seeing swear words and being educated about them. There is the argument that they don’t understand the social situation in which to use them wisely, but that is the same with almost everything. Children make lots of mistakes and learn. It is important to teach them what is appropriate and I think censorship might even make that learning process more difficult.

When I was in primary school was when I was first exposed to swear words, and I picked up the word ‘sexy’. Hilariously, I, and my friends, thought it was a taboo insult… If swear words were not so censored, perhaps we would have learnt to use such phrases more wisely…

The same goes for sexual education, in primary school I thought gay people were some sort of folk legend like leprechauns and elves. And my education on relationships were basically Disney films! But that’s getting off topic!

I suppose I am trying to say, the world is what it is, lets stop skirting around reality and get to the point!

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They may or may not express an emotion… but many of these words were created to offend and show agressiveness. So they are “bad” from their own start. And those words who were not created with this purpose, were word used by lower classes, not for those more educated.

So from the very beginning, these words are vulgar, bad and offensive.

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Not true. For instance the word Crap derives from Thomas Crapper (middle class), who’s company improved and increased the popularity of the flush toilet. He also invented the ballcock.

That is subjective. If they originated from terms used by lower classes does that mean that they are vulgar in your opinion?

A words value is as it is defined today, not in the past. For instance the word OK means that something is acceptable. It originated from a Victorian joke where the wrong letters were used for acronyms. So OK was a joke on the term All Correct.

Of course it is subjective! Everything in life is! And don’t twist my words! I don’t mean that all the words used by lower classes are vulgar. But lower classes don’t behave like high classes where apperances are more important and where access to a better education is easier.

In today’s world, that doesn’t mean really much because most people have access to a good education (I mean, what is lower class or high class anyway? Someone with lots of money is not necessarily high class and viceversa)

Sorry I didn’t mean to twist your words, just wasn’t sure if that is what you meant! Glad it wasn’t :wink:

The words meanings are defined, and objective (Although the definitions changes over time). How people feel about them is subjective. The words are objective tools that articulate an emotional state, I personally find the concept of people censoring them offensive. It denies people expressive freedom because of subjective memes.

I find the debate on censorship an interesting one. Personally i think censorship is a good thing, it is a moderation of what is acceptable to the majority. Sure it doesn’t suit everyone but on the whole it is a good thing that people don’t just blurt out anything that comes into their heads without some sort of filter.

True recently their has been far too much political correctness gone mad so that you can barely say anything without having to apologize but generally speaking it works and in theory has the aim of generally keeping the peace.

In the now world though there are so many platforms for people to express their thoughts in any way they choose that i don’t see it as a problem. If you want to say something post it on your own blog/website, if people are interested they will follow it. I read something the other day along the lines of whilst people have the freedom of speech you don’t have to provide the platform from which they can speak. Made sense to me.

Why doesn’t any of the world leaders use expletives? can’t really see Obama saying ‘The crisis in the middle east is F**king awful right now’

The English language has so many words (a lot more than most languages) just seems a shame to just use the same few words to express anything from ‘that was a fking good sandwich’ to 'They have just blown up a Fking building’.

can’t really see Obama saying ‘The crisis in the middle east is F**king awful right now’

Right, because it’s socially unacceptable to other people around him (the entire nation/world). Why is it socially unacceptable to those other people? Because it’s unacceptable to the people around them.

It’s cyclical logic with no cause. Many socially unacceptable things have a better root cause, is all. This one seems to be a weird fear or distaste for words with the same meaning as other, accepted words, all because other people share that distaste - but they only do for the same reason :smiley: .

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Because it has a stronger meaning and it is more despective, maybe? :wink:

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I would argue that almost everyone I know would tell me that “foul language” is bad because of popular perception (unless they believe it’s bad because of their religion - but most religions that teach people not to swear also do so because of popular perception - i.e. it’s good to be perceived as socially upright, etc) - if everyone or almost so believe that it’s bad because of popular perception… what if everyone just stopped perceiving this meaningless thing as bad?

People’s own anxiety over these words are what make them bad :smile:

Edit: Just to be clear here, this is an academic argument - I censor myself regularly depending on setting and audience. I just don’t see why anyone should feel that need/pressure.

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i don’t agree i’m afraid, as i said earlier people would just find another word to replace it and it’s meaning would transfer to the new word. Words are just a way of communicating a feeling or thought and swear words are used to convey the strongest of emotions/feelings short of a physical outburst.

All words are subjective as they are just noises to give a message, same as in the animal kingdom. It’s not unsurprising that most swear words are short and sharp type words as these noises are typically associated with aggression or displeasure.

Again, we go back to the subjective issue. Almost everything in life is subjective and language is even more subjective than most things.

Of course, if the big majority of the society would think that “fcking" didn’t have a despective o negative connotation, then it would be fine to use in every situation or occasion. And you could argue that saying "fcking awesome” is not negative at all.

Some words are rude because they were created specifically to insult and offend others. Some words changed their meaning with time because people made them rude, aggressive and despective.

Some are rude only depending on the context and even the country (a word that’s considered rude in UK may be perfectly acceptable in US or Australia)

What they have in common is that these words, when used in their worst sense, are used to insult, to offend or to talk about a subject with disdain, to show disrespect. And that’s why society doesn’t accept them. It is not only the word but the intention of the meaning behind it

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What they have in common is that these words, when used in their worst sense, are used to insult, to offend or to talk about a subject with disdain, to show disrespect. And that’s why society doesn’t accept them. It is not only the word but the intention of the meaning behind it

I can think of many non “swear” words or phrases that fit that criteria (unfortunately, humans are mean).

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