Should we tell the * to F*** off? :-o

Your entire reply was about other topics, save for one line. The topic at hand is censorship of certain words. It’s that meandering around a field of straw men and anecdotal evidence that’s what got me started. Not religion or religious people.

I agree, in the US, there appears to be a big mesh of social/belief issues. At it’s core is coming to conclusions on issues without properly considering the validity of the evidence their belief (not necessarily religious) is based on. It is often based on people being influenced by authority bias; Someone influential in their life says something and they take it on faith that they are right. Religious organisations are the perfect environment for wide spread authority bias, so it is probable that a number of these beliefs (again not necessarily religious ones) are spread that way.

‘Cursing is bad’ is a one of those beliefs that have no real evidence behind them.

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You keep using the terms “straw men” and “anecdotal” as though they’ll somehow win an argument for you, or something.

We’re discussing censorship of words.
It is a theory that the censorship of those words is caused by people’s beliefs about those words.
It is a theory that religious beliefs of one kind or another can influence people’s beliefs about other things, such as those words.
Now, the religious doctrine or influence about those words are relevant to the OP.

And as for anecdotal, you asked me some specific questions, and I answered them. @DaveMaxwell did likewise. I don’t see your issue.

You’re the one who’s out on a limb:

All I’m saying is strictly talking about censorship of words, it flows down from government agencies.

Glad to know that all censorship of words, at all levels, flows from the government (especially since all governments agree on what to censor). That’s a reasonable stance. :wink:

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Sorry dude. I’ve got a job. Carry on.

Unfortunately, many in the US define themselves BY their religious beliefs. They can’t define themselves in any other way. And those beliefs affect how they walk, how they talk, how they judge others. And the judgmental nature is where the censorship (and political over correctness) comes into play.

And it’s not just the devoutly religious, either. Then there are the extremists who go to the furthest extremes and try to push the boundaries of basic human decency, which is then causes the backlash and we are inundated with stupid censorship and other laws in the first place.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of numpties that believe they can do (or say) anything they want, regardless of who they hurt. And instead of punishing just those idiots, they put laws into place which handcuff everyone, regardless of whether or not they are capable of rational thought.

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Off topic: I signed off because I needed to get back to actually being productive. Then I get an email notification on replies. Enough to swear.

Signing out of this topic - after I unsubscribe from notifications.

C’mon guys… I bet some people doesn’t like swearing because whatever religion says so. But in my case, it has nothing to do with that.

I simply consider it… so low class! I mean, if you find that to express the instesity of your emotion you need to rely on swearing… It is a question of respect. You downgrade someone even more when you call him an as***** and not only an idiot.

I simply don’t like it.

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FYI, you can mute a topic (if you no longer want to receive notifications from it)

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That’s a more valid opinion than most so far. I have zero issues with someone having that opinion.

I can think that swearing is stupid or low class and still fight for someone’s right to do it without censorship, though.

The problem is when it stops being your opinion and starts being forced on everyone else, is all. Same as any other belief any of us might hold. If this was your belief about any other type of (non harmful) speech, we’d not support it being censored, right? So if the topic is censoring, then why is it the norm to censor swearing? Your belief that such language is “low class” is fine as a personal belief, but when it becomes policy, it becomes censorship of speech without any tangible cause, doesn’t it?

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The only reason that I see to censor foul language is that people (unfortunately, and not only children) tend to do what they see every day. It looks like more normal. And when they used to something, they repeat it.

Of course, this even more true with kids with copy and try everything they see.

Sometimes that’s good. Sometimes it isn’t.

And you are fine, in general, with things being universally censored just because you dislike them?

No. But I understand why sometimes people want to censor stuff. Humans are not very smart, are they? :smiley:

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Which brings us back to one of the main questions - why do we feel it’s bad for anyone (but especially kids) to say these words? If they weren’t considered rude, offensive or taboo then no one would care about kids repeating them and they’d lose their power.

Yes generally speaking. In theory we are a democracy (depending on your country) so we vote in people to govern us and make decisions based on what most people want (and in some cases what is deemed to be the most sensible despite what most people want e.g. most people want to pay no tax but that wouldn’t work).

I am not religious and similar to @molona put my dislike of swear words down to the fact i find them an inadequate way of expressing something in most situations.

A question to the quote above… if we apply that to being naked does it still hold true for you? Why should i wear clothes? I was born naked so surely i should be able to walk through the streets and past schools?! Should i be censored just because people don’t want to see me naked, as said previously about swearing: children will know what naked people look like one day so why can’t they just see naked adults wandering around now? i am not a nudist (and certainly don’t condone exposing oneself to children), just trying to make the point that we are already ‘censored’ in every aspect of life by society. That’s what makes it a society. A collection of rules of etiquette within a group. Some groups will have more or less rules but on the whole we all ‘censor’ ourselves and are ‘censored’ by other people and the people that we chose to govern us (be that religious or government or dicatorship or parents etc).

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I’m not a nudist either, but would have no issue with you walking around naked. As long as your behaviour is passive. Yes in front of children too. It’s another example of social taboo that I don’t think has any real logic behind it. If you think there is something fundamentally wrong with that, look at the evidence to support it being OK, endless tribes thought the world and over thousands of years have done it with no issues at all.

Having said that, I wouldn’t choose to walk around naked even if it was commonly accepted as OK.

I find it interesting that the whole discussion focuses on the rights of individuals to choose how to behave. There seems to be no corresponding right for individuals (including children) to be protected from behaviour they may find offensive or threatening.

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I’m of the opinion that the circumstance/context is essential. Of course any deliberate attempt to offend/cause conflict/threaten someone should be punished. The status qua at the moment though is to ban certain words or individual freedoms in general that can be completely passive, innocent, well meaning. To me banning these things is the same as banning all knives because some people misuse them. What about all the poor chefs? And guess what, the people who misused knifes, still get hold of them, or use something else! Chefs loose out, gangsters carry on as before.

No, it’s not a case of banning. Of course you may use a knife, in the appropriate place and the appropriate manner. But I think you’ll find that does not include carrying one in public, whether your intention is malicious or entirely peaceful and non-threatening.

Likewise, you may use whatever language you choose, or go naked, in the appropriate setting.

All I’m saying is that there are two sides to every argument, and so far, this one seems to be pretty one-sided about who has “rights”.

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I agree with Technobear.

We wear clothes because we need more protect ourselves from cold in the winter, and sun in the summer among other things.

Apart from that, seeing someone naked is not my thing, even if you have the best body ever. First, it is unsanitary. Whether we like it or not, we seggregate all kind of stuff throught sweat and from every single hole that, without clothes, it would stick on chairs, etc.
Aesthetically, I don’t like it.
Would I stop someone from going naked? No.

Another example would be breast feeding which nowadays it seems that happens in every single bar or restaurant. Natural? Completely natural. 100% natural. Do I say anything when it happens? Not a word. I mind my business. Do I like it? No, I don’t.

In this last example, I even argued with a friend about this. She had a baby and we were on the street, we sat on a terrace and ask for drinks. Her baby was hungry so right there she just opened the shirt and start to feeding her.
She asked me if I was uncomfortable and I did warn her that she shouldn’t ask questions if she didn’t want to hear the answer. She said “but I do want to hear it” and I said “Yes, I do”.
Then she started to tell me that there was nothing wrong with something so natural and blah blah blah.

Another example: Marijuhana. So many people want it legalize for recreational purposes. Would I stop the process? No, not me. Do I think that it should be legalized? No, I don’t. Maybe it would be better if it was legal, I don’t know. But I think that people are stupid enough. I find funny though when people say that if you have a joint nothing really happens. That’s because they don’t look see how their behaviour has changed. And I’m not talking the effect when you smoke it once, I’m talking about the effect medium-long term.

In summary: We’re stupid. I will never forbid anything because it is useless. I don’t have any doubt that humans will destroy themselves. We never think about other people, just us, the individual. But I don’t like it.

An interesting point on Marijuhana, personally I think it should be legal, but I also think it should be illegal so smoke around others who don’t want to take it. This is because although you should have the right to take it if you wish, you don’t have the right to force others to take it. It is a physical harm forced on others.

I sometimes find this awkward too, but I blame it on illogical prejudices I have inherited from society, so try to ignore it.

In the UK you can carry a knife in public if you can give a legitimate legal reason to do so. Going to a cooking class for instance. Words defined as swear words are also simply tools, but weapons if used in the wrong way.

I would be interested to hear any strong arguments from the other side of the debate (I would call it a debate rather than an argument :slight_smile: )?