The Social Skills of a Web Developer - or lack thereof!

I guess it depends on the work environment. Previous job, I was VERY socialized because other co-worker nearby had similar interest in web development… my new one… let’s just say I’m the only one doing programming. It gets bit lonely time to time.

I have no problem interacting with my clients. What I am less good at is selling myself. But fortunately I know some people that are very good in selling, so they take care of that :slight_smile:
Once sold, I can handle client interaction very well myself.

I’m a INFJ apparently.

I use to be shy, not any more. It took a lot of personal developing. It still takes a push to get off the ground sometimes but it gets easier to convince yourself all is well and all will be well. PD is an on going thing after all, Susan Jeffers Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway is good.

One thing I suggest people learn is a form of martial arts, like Wing Chun, it’s the most effective in street combat. Of course you have to work up the courage to phone then go, but you can get private lessons. You will have no fear once you know you can snap someone in half, no matter how skinny or short you are.

Read the works of James Allen, Anthony Robbins, Paul Hanna or Cheryl Richardson for an extra boost of confidence. There are audio programs from most of those authors.

Being social is over rated though.

Know how you feel, some work environments are dead.

Well now…socializing with clients and socializing overall are two different things. I usually tend to keep close enough but also in a certain distance the clients. The needed distance that they can’t act like if they were my close friends but neither to fear to ask me something.

If one has issues socializing in real life (not with clients) now that’s something serious, while if it is socializing with the clients it is something you can learn and get used to with time. BUT you have to let your self go a bit (yeah, I don’t mean acting like a jerk in front of your clients) but you need to let your self go. If you are still afraid, let the client start the discussion so you will get an idea what are the clients interests, follow him but don’t overtake the entire discussion (heck I love people that talk a lot…but I want to say something too…once in awhile…).

On that note, I haven’t got drunk for a month already…now I see why my head is getting all fuzzy and I get tired too fast (ding ding, socializing is a great relaxing method, refreshing your brain).

I consider myself to be anti-social and by that I meant I don’t like social activities so I avoid them as possible. And I absolutely hate small talk.

I haven’t ever actually met clients in person so I can’t say how I can handle that. I’d like to think that if I’m well prepared, I would do good enough. It just seems like so much work, it’s so much easier to communicate via email. You can spend all the time you need to understand what they’re saying, to formulate a reponse and to keep track of everything without any extra effort.

That’s why I like forums too - the communication is so much more productive. Being an introverted person, I actually have to think before I say something and it can be difficult in real time especially with the extroverts who are just blah blah blah :stuck_out_tongue:

Regarding conferences, I think I could speak if I wanted to. Back in uni, I had my share of presentations. Granted the audience was small, but preparation is key. You just go up there and do your thing.

Your eyes are an inspiration for my next web design” - just teasing :rofl: but it is interesting how some times funny/unrelated things can be a nice start off (yeah I bet its better testing them with people you don’t know instead of with clients or in a conference) :stuck_out_tongue:

I think it is natural to some people, those who are extroverted in particular. But I also think you can learn it if you want. But the thing is, you have to actually want it. :smiley:

Not to me, no. To me socializing is draining and requires lots of effort.

Again, it’s the introvert vs. extrovert thing. You can learn to socialize if it doesn’t come natural to you if you want, but it doesn’t mean you have to like it. :stuck_out_tongue:

True that Saul, it doesn’t mean you have to like :> (but again…a good laugh, couple beers with friends is something I could not refuse.)

But still I don’t think that it is something you have it or you don’t. If you just stop staying in front of the computer and go out you will see that WE ALL HAVE IT.

Since 4 years already that I am doing web development full time my social life has gone to zero. But thats not because I never had it. Once i finished my studies, quit my part-time job and got into this venture, since THAT day my social life is sinking down (told you, been a month I haven’t gone out having fun). While previously I would get up and go out even at midnight if a friend called me (mhmm yeah, have a nice pub right under my apartment).

So back to the discussion, it is US that refrain our self from socializing. You can’t say I don’t want to socialize with Demi Moore (ok perhaps you can…she is getting old kinda, name another one please!!!) :stuck_out_tongue:

This topic of social ineptitude stems from situations where someone simply knows more about something than someone else does. I would think, too, that it also comes from those moments where one has other ideas about things that someone else may believe to be somewhat unsettling or alien in nature. I think it’s the same in all fields really. It’s kinda funny!

The thing that bothers me is this: when you take the time to explain complex things using simple words or meanings in order to help another, you should expect an attentive audience but what you usually receive is someone with glazed-over eyes who have the attention span of an ant and who care little for their own effort in the situation. I’ve done it, you’ve done it, we’ve all done it and everyone on earth will continue to do it–but that’s humans being for ya! :slight_smile:

It’s always been my experience, too, that it’s safer to be a genius about something rather than a fraudulent politician. If someone gives you hell or becomes troublesome just because you speak in acronyms and semantics, then in most cases, you’re probably better off without them in your life. They may bark a lot but I only raise my ears when someone bites…

I don’t know from acronyms, but I think I’m schizophrenic. :slight_smile: I am quite good at socializing, very much at ease with large numbers of people, and something of a raconteur, but I tend to prefer my own company and that of my wife’s to hanging with larger groups.

I can understand people being socially inept, but what I don’t understand is the perverse pride some take in being such an inept, socially dysfunctional person. My stepson is like this: he’s gone from not knowing how to do more than stare at someone like a gape-jawed sea bass when they speak to him, to employing this incredibly cheesy “Howdy!” persona like some grinning car salesman. (He has about three phrases he can use, then it’s back to staring. And yes, he’s a big computer geek. Ask him about overclocking or WoW and he’s off to the races.)

Then why does Mrs. Max think you’re the ginchiest? :lol:

Because it’s more fulfilling (in the short term at least) to be happy with yourself, and proud of who you are, than to spend the whole time wishing you could be someone or something else. If you are the sort of person who prefers the company of computers to the company of other people, why should you apologise for that? It’s part of who you are, and you’ll get much further in life if you’re happy with your own life, rather than feeling bad about not being what you’re not.

When Grizzly bears see Tommy, they play dead. :shifty:

Oh, no worries … unless they insist on serving it as text/html and putting those ridiculous spaces before NESTC delimiters. :stuck_out_tongue:

I prefer your wife’s company, too.

What can I say … she’s a very perceptive and intelligent lady!

ROTFLMAO :rofl:

Don’t complain about work! I know so many developers that get frustrated when clients ask for changes that don’t make “sense”. Focus on your clients needs and be enthusiastic about helping them solve their problems.

:agree: I’m the same in this regard - If the topic is interesting or mind provoking I will be attentive, otherwise I’ll just give one worded answers also - sometimes I will talk about something completely off the wall either just to turn it around into something that isn’t mind numbingly boring! In other cases if someone is talking to me about something that I dont particularly find engaging then I’ll also give the one word answers, like Oh…and yeah or more over “i…seee” … but I too get looks as if to say…well I thought you might have said something more and that in turn throws them off a bit therefore conversation will cease!! …:lol: :shifty: I guess I need to refine this!

:lol: I guess I’m like that too, I’m a queitly confident person - you’d don’t have to be a loud mouth in order to get your point across or be one of those “wow hey look at me aren’t I so confident in myself type people” :rolleyes:

I don’t have a problem starting the conversation off or indeed finishing it but I do sometimes struggle to keep the conversation going, I guess this ties in with what I was saying to Scallio - it depends on the subject being discussed and if I’m into it or not. But sometimes I find I tend to go blank sometimes within a conversation, I just completely forget what I was going to say and then I end up looking like a right idiot/twit - but anyway that doesnt happen very often :shifty: ish… But how to overcome this “kicking off the conversation issue” - I guess you just say hello and take it from there really, what’s the worse that can happen? As for talking to girls, well thats another story - perhaps the guys here will give you advice on that one :rofl:

:injured: sorry to hear that sg707 - But I do agree with the environment and how it affects our interaction with co-workers etc… sometimes it can be very lonely and also a cruel slow torture when you have nothing worthwhile to discuss with your fellow co-workers except what’s on tv or are you going out tonight talk :rolleyes: I think exposure to this sort of environment in particular over a long period of time will stunt your social skills & mental growth! :sick:

You see, this is my problem aswell - I tie this in with social skills also - the ability to promote myself and my business - sometimes I think well jeeze theres so many better web designers out there I’ve no chance and I tend to just be put off by that - don’t get me wrong I still advertise etc but I don’t push myself as much as I should because I’m no good at this selling business, perhaps you have the right approach, find someone who is a good sales person and it’s problem solved then, but the only issue I would have with this is that I didn’t solve this issue myself, I had to revert to someone else to fix it for me! :confused2

I’ve read this book also, when I was 12 or so - It’s the one line I always say to myself when something comes along that I find a bit scary or makes me nervous… I really did like that book :tup:

I did do karate during my teens but I have to admit this never had a bearing on my social skills! I do agree with the confidence booster element it can have but it’s not going to help me be more motivated or finding that drive to get started with something, maybe it’s just something I’ll always struggle with shrugs I’ll check out those books, thanks for sharing…

That’s a very interesting point - I also keep clients at arms length, I’m friendly but not overly friendly as in oh hey great lets go for some drinks or something along those lines - to me that’s a nightmare scenario :shifty:

I agree with letting the client talk as much as they wish, but sometimes you find there are people who just love the sound of their own voice - you bearly get a chance to get a word in but I find that if I ask more questions about what they are interested in or their business or themselves then it tends to give me a chance to talk because everyone loves talking about themselves, well almost everyone and in this approach they are waiting for me then to ask the next question “all about them” - sort of a sly turn around but sometimes this approach is all that works for me at times!

See, that’s the thing I would love to just deal with clients over email or the phone, this would be the ideal for me but does that mean I’m anti-social or have no social skills? Does it mean I’m not a people person? :confused2 I dont believe it does but to others I would definitely believe so lol

I agree, it’s like most things in life if you want it bad enough you’ll get it - I’d like to be more socialable but I just don’t think I’m the type that can pull it off, I think I would seem a bit awkward if I were overly confident :x

:lol: Yes, I know what you mean - sometimes when I’m chatting about something technical or computer-based to someone who isn’t into the same subject usually you get this blank look and all of a sudden you get these one worded answers and I’m thinking…wait…I do these one worded answers when I’m not interested - usually I just say ok ur not bothered I’ll shut up, it shocks them but what’s the point in continuing, I’m only wasting my breath! I think in those instances my social skills are out the window because I can be quite blunt when people are just rude - I think the shock element for them is that I just call them out on their “clever use” of their one worded answers just to show they are replying to me!

:lol: That’s funny - I guess he has a bit of fine tuning to do on his social skills also - but I think the problem is that he is just too smart and trying to find someone he can chat to is a struggle - I think for most of us who are into any form of technical subjects this will always be a barrier.

I agree with the humour element and also a good healthy dose of imagination - these are key to a good conversation, for me anyways - I always tend to lean more on the side of humour because there’s nothing worse than talking about something boring or some technical long winded subject, it’s a conversation stopper to me - I found growing up that the use of sarcasm helped me loads making friends and getting along but of course you need to know when to cap that otherwise it can be insulting! I call upon that now and again in small doses just to show I can have a laugh and it’s not all serious.

I was an extremely shy person a few years back.
I could speak for hours about subject matter to anybody but when it came to informal chitchat, I was a bundle of nerves.

I would freak out at the thought of an informal dinner. :sick:

Today people consider me a cool person to hang out with.:slight_smile:

I did small easy things to make this radical shift in my personality:

  • Start by talking to people you are comfortable with. I don’t mean your friends. I mean the personality types you are comfortable with… developers like you, your peers, your juniors…
  • Most people love to talk about themselves, you just have to get them started. Start by asking simple open ended questions which cant be answered in one liners… like: What drew you to this line of work OR Hey I am really interested in ____ which you do… could you offer me some tips?
  • And when they answer, listen to them. Do not get distracted by thinking what you are going to ask next… It really shows when you do that…When you have to answer their question, don’t give one liners either
  • Learn by observation… See how others start and carry a conversation and incorporate some ideas which you picked.
  • Have a good attitude and be positive about your self. Build your self-esteem. Dress well, hit a gym if you need to and love yourself.
  • Hang out with social people. Certain traits of them will rub off on you without even you noticing it.
  • Know that not every conversation is perfect. Don’t be afraid to correct yourself. It’s no big deal to make a mistake. In fact you can turn it around and make it work for you by correcting yourself instantly.

Good Luck!:tup:

That’s a fine list Sugirda, thanks for sharing with us! :slight_smile:

I do believe you can learn alot from pure observation, this is something that has helped me alot over time :agree: It’s funny, because informal meetings/social gatherings are something that has never appealed to me either, even though I can do the “serious socialising events” - it’s the small things I struggle with which makes me think it’s a more personal issue, not a confidence one but perhaps something else I’m missing and I can’t seem to figure it out…yet atleast!

INTJ is a new term I learnt today thanks to you :slight_smile:

Yes, and also from studying, and from courses. But also from just plunging into it. Doing it. Practice. It doesn’t mean you’re ever going to like it, but you’ll be able to handle it.
I remember when I just started working for this company, my first job out of college. I had been working for them as a junior programmer for a couple of months, when one morning my boss came into the room and told me one of my senior collegues was sick and I had to take his place to present a new project to the board in 5 minutes! Why me? Because I was the only one that had already seen some of the specs this senior collegue had written. Add to this the fact that back then I was an extremely shy person (the classical socially disfunctional computer nerd :eyebrow:), and you can understand the cold sweat started running down my spine instantly :lol:

I prepared myself as best as I could in 5 minutes, took a deap breath, went in, and did the presentation. I told them right away what had happened, and that I’d brief them as best as I could, and they were really cool and understanding about it. And in the end, it didn’t go bad at all. After all, people at those levels don’t want to hear tech details. And since I didn’t know any, I gave them what they wanted. A global overview.

I guess it was a good thing I only had 5 minutes. I might have run otherwise :smiley:
But it was a turning point. I’m still no extrovert person, but from that moment I lost my fear of speaking in front of unknow people.

I didn’t solve this issue myself, I had to revert to someone else to fix it for me!

Ah, but if your car breaks down, do you bring it to a mecanic? Do you feel bad because someone else had to fix your car?
Of course, if you need to do things yourself, then it’s good to learn how to do them best. And if you feel it’s something you want to learn/do yourself, then go for it. But otherwise, if you have the possibility, I think it’s not a bad idea to delegate :wink: While they sell, I can focus on other things.