It’s like any outsourcing, if you can do it cheaper ‘in-house’, why not do it. If you can’t, hire a lawyer. Let me give you an example.
My daughter isn’t fully vaccinated and I needed to get her into pre-k with missing vaccines. It appears it only takes a signed letter from a parent - took me maybe 4 hours to research it - find appropriate law and decypher it. I read (on another forum I think) someone else’s story who was in the same situation and hired a lawyer. It cost him $4500. Don’t get me wrong, it IS a ***** to read these laws, I don’t know why they can’t write them in normal English, and I am not a native speaker so it probably takes me even longer. But for that kind of money I’ll do it! I just don’t have time to work for lawyers - it takes me [censored - don’t want IRS to know] weeks of full time work to make $4500. I am already working 60-70 hours a week, where would I find time to make money for lawyers?
It may be extreme case and there are times when you need a lawyer, but I can’t think of a job that would bring so much money that you could justify hiring a lawyer for everything. I’ll hire a lawyer when I go to court and there is a lot of money involved, or when the law is so complicated I can’t make sense out of it
Well, there are always examples to prove anything. So, I think that the vaccination story is not really representative of the ordinary role of lawyers in business.
I look at it like this (real example) - say I win a $10,000 consulting gig.
My attorney does a pass on my ordinary contract to make sure it is valid in the state where my client’s business is. That’s $150.
Later, we realize that we have an outstanding IP issue, and quickly move to get an negotiatated ownership scheme on paper. This cost about $500 and took about 3 hours. My client and I agreed to split the 500 buckd 50/50, and out of the project budget.
This kind of deal is typical of how I use my lawyer.
I bring him short things like, ‘can you make this contract work with a client in Canada’ or ‘can you protect me from someone elses HIPAA non-compliance.’.
In a year, I’d say I spend around $5,000 in payroll services, bookeepiong, tax preparation, and financial advisory services.
I’ll also spend about $5000 in legal - just little things like I described.
If I were to guess the amount of hours it would have taken me to handle the legal and tax work on my own (just for conversation) I would say that it would have taken about 40 hours - not to mention the risk of me doing wrong.
That 40 hours is a whole week for me to grow my business, and not spend my time learning law. It’s time I can be increasing my value, and not worrying about law because it’s all taken care of.
Nowadays, Im extending the model - I spend too much time as an amateur marketer! I wish I could pay someone $5000/hr to write my ad copy , make letter heads, run ads, do seo…
Oh ma gawd! Someboddy stop me I caint stop OUTSOURCINNGNGNG!!!
Quick - I’l give someone 5 dollars to finish this post! 
Well if you make lots of $$, it’s ok. I don’t make nearly $100 an hour, so I’d spend these 40 hours to save myself $5k. If I could handle it that is
If you really expected $15,000 for an overnight project, perhaps you should check out some of the free services offered in the pyscology department. A lecturer offering something to the class does not constitute a verbal contract. For starters it’s missing the acceptance on your part, other than showing up the next day with work, at which time he did not agree to the original terms. Lesson learned, before you go off half-baked, get a deposit and a legal agreement.
Well said sir, well said.
The acceptance part was us staying after class for 45 minutes discussing what he wanted and telling him he would have it done by tomorrow.
Did you get anything in writing though that said he would actually pay you?
Does he have the money? 
promise, undertaking or contract, which is valid in
other respects and is otherwise enforceable, is not void for lack of a
note, memorandum or other writing and is enforceable
[here is just some text to get around ‘message is too short’ message]
He received a million dollar endowment for this project. He definitely has the money. And since he needed this project done, yesterday (per say), 15,000 is not as extreme as it might sound. He was desperate.
-Chris
I think your lecturer should be applauded for going beyond the school syllabus and teaching you some ‘real world’ skills about business. There’s many lessons to be learned in what happened, including:
- always get a signed contract that clearly shows the agreement made between the two parties
- Always get a deposit to further underline the commitment of the client
- If something is too good to be true, it probably is.
He’s also shown you how motivated you can be given the right situation, so while the other 40 people in your class went home and watched the Simpsons all night, you guys were up all night proving that you have the drive to make it.
To add to your lesson, may I suggest you think carefully before handing over this work to your college and start thinking about getting things in writing as to what your college lecturer does intend to give you for this work. If he’s offering better grades or less exams, get it in writing BEFORE you hand over the goods. Also consider in this agreement how the work is to be exploited and who actually ‘owns’ this work. You’d be gutted to find that your lecturer is making $1million bucks a year after using your ideas on his own little side project.
So, lots of lessons to be learned that will serve you well later in life. Enjoy.
I know in the state of Indiana if you have a contract over $500, it must be in writing. If it’s above $500 and there’s nothing in writing, nothing is bound. Whenever I do a contract I always have it in writing, no matter what.
why not try sending a collections agency to his home. they will sure get you the money and he will have to pay for the cost of them going out.
Surely even in America, a collection agency can only collect if a court has ruled that there is a debt to recover in the first place?
Yah, I dont think thats the best idea at all.
Actually yes and no, a collection agency can pester the hell out of you for the money that’s owed but they have no real power to “collect”, once the collection agancy fails it gets handed over to an attorney who has to file suit and get a judgment from that suit… even then they still have nothing except a judgement. To actually collect on a judgement they then have to pay the local Sherrifs office a fee to come out a “take things”
The only place this dosnt apply is on things like a car loan … then they can just resposess the car.
Have you thought of going through your school’s channels in getting this resolved? Perhaps the Dean of Faculty would be of some help. Head of the department? Definitely pay $100 and go consult with a lawyer first thing monday morning, but I think it might be worth your time to also look into school’s own procedures for “reporting” faculty.
There is the way things should be, and the way things are. A verbal contract is technically legally binding, but I have some serious doubts as to whether by the letter of the law, a verbal contract exists.
The acceptance part was us staying after class for 45 minutes discussing what he wanted and telling him he would have it done by tomorrow.
All well and good. Unfortunately, that doesn’t really sound like impartial witnesses hearing something like “We will do this, for this amount of money and it will be done on this date”.
One time I had a roommate I had entered into a one year lease with. Around the 4 month mark we had some sort of disagreement that ended with him wailing on me. Absolute grounds for breaking a contract (even a written one). He ended up suing me, and he actually wound up winning, despite the fact I had a police report etc. Granted, I and many others believe the judgement was incorrect and senseless, and easily appealable, but is it worth it?
Now you have a functional site, he can’t have it for less than $15K, you know he’s unreliable and it’s your prerogative to not even cross the road to p*** on him if his head is on fire and you learned a valuable lesson without it costing you money (you didn’t earn the money you assumed you would, but it didn’t cost you any money).
It boils down to a judgement call, IMO. I just think you are some very unsteady ground here. “You gotta fight for something, or you’ll fall for anything”, you need to figure out if this a “something” for you, and be aware that you are already way behind in terms of money per time spent, and from the sounds of it, achieving a reasonable reward for your time is unlikely, even if you do win. If you still engage in a fight because of a principle, what principle is it that you’re fighting for? “Being a weasel is bad”?, I think once all the “cobwebs” of romance and self-righteousness are cleared away, that is the simple core of this.
Fighting for causes that seem hopeless is a treasured North American pastime, just remember that you only ever hear about successes and it has proven itself mathematically to be a poor use of resources (not money, resources) over all
In your situation, you could prove it. But the problem is, will all those people stand up against the person giving you a grade? And would you want to?
There were actually 4-5 other people that stayed after class to discuss the project. They were also looking to get the $15,000. We just beat them out when it came to quality and the time delivered.
So there were other witnesses that were there when we discussed the details
-Chris
P.S. We are planning on setting up a meeting with the student union’s legal advice center on Monday.