So does web designer + web programmer = web developer?
It’s a grey area indeed, alot of graphic designers call themselves web designers, yet as a web designer in a corporate environment I barely ever touch graphics. I find that the recruiters are the ones that often blur the lines in an effort to get an individual that can do all roles
My opinion out of observation in the real world:
Web designer:
He can design outstanding “wow” effect layouts. He can or cannot handcode HTML properly. He cares or don’t care about standards. He slices or do not slice his layouts (as oppose to pure css layouts). He knows Flash, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and whatnot graphic tools. He “cannot” do any server side scripting. He may know a little client side scripting like javascript.
Web programmer:
He is an expert in a server side language like PHP, ASP, etc. He may be an expert as well with a client side language like javascript. He knows some HTML but he “cannot” design wow effect layouts. He can do “skeleton/plain” layouts that a designer may later work on. He may care or not care about web standards.
Web developer:
He is a combination of a web designer and web programmer. He may not be a total expert in both fields but he knows a substantial amount of knowledge in each of them and he can “do” things on his own. Most importantly, he cares about standards, clean code, best practices, and latest trends in general web development.
Web designing and web programming are complete jobs in itself.
Web designers work on Front End.
And Web programmers work on Back End.
But there is a Middle End as well in the complete scene.
So it is equal duty of web designer and web programmer to know the middle end.
And what you are asking about is called “Middle End”. 
Hi there,
I kind of thought there were three roles. Back when I was studying, these were the three "text-book" definitions. (off the top of my head of course)
Web Designer - Designs the front end, worries about things like layout of the site and general design considerations. etc.
Web Producer - Takes the design created by the web designer and makes it web ready. Slices up the image provided and adds whatever is required to attain the interactivity goals specified by the client.
Web Developer - Develops the back end, what people have started to call “web programmer”. (which is kind of redundant and general at the same time, I feel, as Programming is programming, whther it be HTML, CSS, PHP whatever… You’re programming in a language regardless of markup/syntax).
TO conclude, I feel that the confusion and redefinition has been caused by freelancers who have been forced to become jacks of all trades. Therefore, web designers are now doing web production work as well as design. CSS is now deemed to be part of the web designer patheon/portfolio.
The title “web producer” is now obscured into web design. So you have many web producers saying that they are web designers despite not knowing what a colour wheel is!
To the point… I guess my advice for you is that you focus on one thing and focus on it well. In the end of it, you won’t be able to (won’t want to) do everything on your own. But it helps knowing about other related technologies and disciplines.
HTH
Regards,
This is a very interesting topic… I actually covered this in an article I wrote entitled Does using CSS have any affect on SEO?
My points were…
A web designer is someone who designs and does not code (think of an artist), therefore a web designer must use a graphics package (such as photoshop) to design their web site layout. These applications use (very bad) html table layouts to produce the pages. They would not use CSS as this is "programming". Yes, thats right CSS is NOT designing.
A web developer is someone who minipulates the web design to give the website its functionality. Once they have a design from the web designer, they would begin optimising the code and perhaps only then would they begin to use CSS.
Search Engine Optimisation is NOT web design, its mainly about marketing but usually requires some web development.
Wouldn’t you agree that this is the case?
all the answers are same to the question which is asked by the user.
I too find this an interesting thread.
It discusses something that I believe anyone hiring folks like us should know and understand.
I discussed my views on the titles held by web professionals in my own article: http://www.yourmessageconsultant.com/articles/web-pros.html
Although I did not say as much in my own article, I do believe that the better web designers understand how sites are put together from a point of view of what designs would take longer to code and develop. They know if they design a certain way that it may require a specialist such as a flash programmer, a database programmer, or someone highly skilled in the scripting languages to make their design happen.
One point I mentioned that no one else has, is that I believe the web developer/programmer should also function as project manager for a website. They are the ones who usually do the hiring/subcontracting of all the other specialties. They are the ones who will typically deal directly with the client. And utimately, they are the ones the client will complain to if something goes wrong.
Web Designer:
Can create graphic website design and is often (but not always) able to produce (X)HTML + CSS.
Web Programmer/Developer:
Can program both server-side (PHP/ASP.NET/Java/whatever) and client-side (Javascript) website/webapp logic and is always able to produce (X)HTML + CSS from given graphic layout.
Of all these definitions Kabatak’s fits best with my understanding, however coming from a largely technical background, and having a significant lack of creative juices running through my veins, outsourcing in this area is my only option.
Having all other things squared away, does outsourcing my creativity exclude me from the Web Developers club?
Yeah - I’m pretty much with Kabatak on this one, although s/he is a little harsh on designers.
Yeah Glasso - I think outsourcing your creativity probably does exclude you from the developers club…
What’s in a name?
I found my original post …
actually, i had been calling myself a web developer for several years until last year when i landed a terrific gig with a global firm, who provides worldwide contracts in about a dozen or more areas of expertise. i was hired to redesign and remarket the internet presence, develop an intranet and perform any other web-related tasks and internet-related strategies to support a new company branding campaign. i consider myself rather well-rounded in web design tools and techniques such as dreamweaver, flash, css, jscript, and seo strategies.
i was brought into the IT department, and after being on board for several months, i discovered i had been more of a what i would describe as a web “author” or “designer” than developer. we are a fully integrated Micrsoft .NET/SQL Server based shop, developing fully interactive web-based applications for external clients, as well as for our employee base of over 13,000 members across the globe.
i have spent the last number of months absorbed with a “learning bug” i have not had for many years and enjoying it tremendously. studying and coding .net and sql server have provided me a complete new arsenal of tools for developing more indepth, completely interactive sites and/or browser-based applications.
whatever name i give myself (or the company provides) is not nearly as relevant as what i am now able to provide after such a brief period of learning and the internal satisfaction it provides.
whatever you decide to call yourself, i just hope you are having as much fun as i am doing it …
Sincerely,
wynne the web guy
I completely agree, this was my opinion on the subject as well. I originally started in Web design, then moved into Web programming, now im in the middle, so I would be a Web developer now, sigh so many changes…
well i did a web development degree and it covered the following,
font-end : xhtml,css,javascript,photoshop,flash,swish
back-end : asp,asp.net,vb.net,php,java,jsp,c#,advance action scripting
databases: oracle,mysql and posgrel
others : xml,xslt,xpath,uml
i don’t call muself a web designer but instead i call myself a developer…
There are many grey areas here
A web designer even though he/she is handling the front end needs to do some development if you may call that so, when he/she needs to program using actionscripting in flash.
Also some web developers and programmers are very adept in CSS and HTML even though they cannot create stunning graphics
Great Topic. I agree with the definitions in general but I also think on the grey areas.
Not all the web programmers know how to program in different languages. And I don’t think this is a limitation.
For web development I trully think that a good programmer needs to have design (css specially) and SEO knowledge and the same for the designer (Some SEO and programming).
Right now I think the definition is not a good reference point for hiring someone. The knoledge and background is where people need to put the eye on.
Well said.
sounds like the same to me.
I’m on my way to become a web designer, maybe taking up some freelance projects in near future. I think what I need to learn more at this time is CSS and Photoshop/Illustrator. Then probably some AJAX and Flash for the second step to make my sites more functional and interactive.
A programmer is different in some ways. Let’s take my example, I design blogs and have chosen the blog engine Wordpress as my framework, so I don’t really need to program; my main task is to let it display beautifully. But of course, some PHP knowledge will help to make the display more appealing or “user-friendly”.
Thus the Wordpress team or those PHP gurus are the ones who do the programming; eg, updating the security of the engine, SEO, etc…