What's the deal with screen readers?

[rguy84]

@ralph_m

The basics of any program should be simple, though. If I open Safari with VO on, it’s not too hard to get it to read out “HTML element”… but then it gets stuck there, and there’s no obvious way to get it to read out the web page, which is silly. It’s only by opening up a list of header elements and choosing one of them that it engages with the page. Then it could do one of several things, like read rapid-fire through the whole page, or settle on one element… seems a bit random. Just not well thought out, IMHO.

When you say stuck, do you mean it says one word or sentence and stops? there is not an obvious way to read a page because there are so many options. I believe JAWS has several hundred hotkeys; at first thought people may be blown away at this. However, remember you are controlling the entire interface.

Here is an example, I am sure you have played Super Mario Bros on Nintendo. I am guessing you might have seen or played Mario Galaxy on Wii (you can substitute Halo or something). Going off wanting the most lifelike experience, what do you want to pick?

How are you using the screen reader?

[rguy84]

@Stomme_poes

JAWS ignores non-form-control text, when you’re in Forms Mode, but you can exit Forms Mode to get the other text read out to you. NVDA will switch out of Forms Mode to read out non-form text. Window-Eyes at least used to be like JAWS but not sure about now.

@ralph_m

Hrmmm, but how do you know you need to exit form mode? That’s a bummer, really.

Depends on what version of JAWS you are running. Pre version 11, when you hit a form, it should say to enter forms mode, hit enter. When you get out of a form, it auto turns off. I found a tutorial for JAWS, and know the people who wrote it. While the info is old, it is still valid. For VO, I haven’t used it much, however, it is very keyboard intensive. Again you have to figure that 1 you are controling everything via non-visual ways, 2 Apple allows more keyboard access by default and 3 you cannot have hotkeys that are easily found by causual users, normal program hotkeys used (apple+q) and such. Maybe having a look at [URL=“http://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/”]Apple’s guide may help?

[ralphm]

@rguy84

When you say stuck, do you mean it says one word or sentence and stops? … How are you using voiceOver?

No, when I open Safari, VO announces that Safari is open, and I can jump from all the menu stuff (back button, close window button etc) to the viewport. VO then says “HTML Element”. Period. I know I’m on the viewport, but then I can’t find any key combos to make it to anything within the viewport. Only by bringing up a list of headings or links can I get started on the page content, but it’s a bit random where I start. I really want an option that just reads of the page from the top.

@rguy84

Maybe having a look at Apple’s guide may help?

Thanks for that link—I didn’t find that while searching. It looks pretty much like the help guide on the computer itself. The problem I had with that is that a lot of key combos they list there don’t seem to work. Anyhow, I’ll read through this version and see if I have more luck.

[Stomme_poes]

ThinkVitamin did a walk-through of NVDA: http://membership.thinkvitamin.com/library/accessibility/websites/screen-readers if you want to watch someone go s-l-o-w-l-y through a page : ) (and he’s not navigating… I never heard of the + key, my instructions were the same as JAWS: ins + down arrow for SayAll).

Ah, good to know the beeping and stuttering isn’t just on my end : ) Gawd that voice is awful! JAWS++

[ralphm]

@Stomme_poes

Gawd that voice is awful! JAWS++

At least VoiceOver has a nice voice to listen to.

[rguy84]

@ralph_m

Thanks for that link—I didn’t find that while searching. It looks pretty much like the help guide on the computer itself. The problem I had with that is that a lot of key combos they list there don’t seem to work. Anyhow, I’ll read through this version and see if I have more luck.

Sorry for the delay, every time I went to reply, i got busy. I bolded the keywords above. Yes it is roughly system help guide. As I was trying to say earlier, a screen reader takes over the system as if you took away the mouse* and screen.

*- on the mac you can set up mouse gestures to do stuff with VO.

re Stomme’s video: that was very edited

[Stomme_poes]

re Stomme’s video: that was very edited

Yeah I noticed. I’ve been emailing with the guy and he’s going to see if TV can get a JAWS license for something less than an arm and a leg and do a go-over of a page (or a form) with JAWS (which would then be JAWS 12 likely). What they should do is have the videos made by someone who’s very comfortable with the controls (and is willing to listen to everything slowly).

[rguy84]

@Stomme_poes

Yeah I noticed. I’ve been emailing with the guy and he’s going to see if TV can get a JAWS license for something less than an arm and a leg and do a go-over of a page (or a form) with JAWS (which would then be JAWS 12 likely). What they should do is have the videos made by someone who’s very comfortable with the controls (and is willing to listen to everything slowly).

I am almost 100% positive he will get nothing. I worked with somewhere where we have been working with Freedom Scientific since the beginning. We do not get any good rates. But that is no reason for TV to need a cheap version. He can easily do that page in the 40 minute window. If they want to learn about the whole page, just do ins+down, down.

[Stomme_poes]

He explained in an email that since FS does not want developers to use the 40min demo for testing and the like, he felt it would be easier for the company to just have a whole, legal copy. Since they are demonstrating to others and that’s what this company does for money etc.

[rguy84]

yeah… we both demo to others, and let people use it, nope no discount. Since TV is profit based they will unlikely budge.