Student: Information Technology or Computer Science?

Community
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To be honest, if you don’t want to get in to computer science (i.e. the science of developing computers and software for computers), I still think an IT degree may be the way to go.

I will be the first to admit that the CS major is quite rigorous. At my university we had a decent sized computer science department, yet my graduating class was only about 8 people. My last few classes had class sizes in the single digits, (whereas our early and mid level classes usually hit their max) because we do have a lot of people switching majors.

Since CS is more about developing stuff for computers, versus managing networks and what not, I don’t know if you can really validate the extra time and headaches it’ll take you to get a CS degree over an IT one. I didn’t take any networking electives (seeing as I knew I wanted to do software), and I know I couldn’t do what our network administrator does (and we have roughly the same amount of education).

I think with a CS degree, you’d spend a lot of time doing stuff you don’t want to do, which could also push you towards not succeeding.

Yes, CS is more flexible, but it’s been my personal experience that for networking/hardware related fields, CS and IT are virtually interchangeable.

In fact, I think what would serve you better than having a CS degree would be to get those certificates you were talking about (CCNA, etc). A degree means you took the courses and got through. A certification means you’ve been rigorously tested on this stuff and the issuer is backing your knowledge. I’d say with an IT degree (focusing in networking) and with a few certifications you’d have no problem getting a job in the area you want.

I would not pursue a computer science degree unless you wanted to go into programming, because if not you’ll be pulling your hair out.

(Just so you know, I’ve actually talked to many people at various stages who are in the CS department that want to do exactly what you are doing who are looking or have switched to the IS major with great success.)

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Thanks samanime and sg707!

I think you’re right samanime, I should something that I love doing than something that I don’t. I’m only 20 years old, and have a whole life ahead of me to make mistakes and learn from them. If I find myself as a Net. Admin. // Net. Eng. // Tech. // DBA, and decide that I don’t like it, I can go back to school and do Software Engineering, Computer Science, or something and say to employers “HEY! I have a BS-IT, experience, and now a BS-CS”

Life is a learning process, and you guys have really upgraded my confidence in it two fold. I’m glad I posted here that day, because otherwise I’d be staying up through early days and late nights worrying about “is this right for me?” rather than doing it and then KNOWING whether it is or isn’t right for me.

And, as a plus, for any others that have the same problem: I googled “information technology vs computer science” and “information systems vs computer science” and this thread floated at pages 3-4. So maybe it will resolve for others in the same situation!

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Tell her not to worry, Algorithms were designed to make students and academics feel stupid, and for those who succeed in it to get a one-way ticket to a job at Google.

In all seriousness, CS has this reputation for a reason, because it’s a hard degree to obtain. There were times when I struggled throughout my degree, but the degree itself was definitely worth it.

Your logic is very biased towards certification. I would argue that obtaining a degree ensures that a graduate has a level of prerequisite knowledge, and most jobs look for degrees. It’s up to you what you think is worth more, a degree or a certificate.

As I’ve said countless, ignored times CS isn’t just about programming. However, I will agree that programming is often the way to show your working on a Computer Science degree, and you’ll need to do some programming if you want to know that you understand the underlying theory. More often than not, because you’re learning theory you’ll be lead into other languages too, such as Prolog and Haskell. These languages do have their place in certain areas of industry, primarily finance and economics, but the average person will lose their mind learning them.

Isn’t Information Systems and Information Technology degrees entirely different?

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Pretty good summary Deaner :slight_smile:

Algorithms classes are what they are. They’re not “designed” to weed out students from a degree. It’s part of the regular course material.

A degree plus legitimate certs will open doors for IT-related jobs. MS certs and Cisco certs are widely accepted. A+ hardware/network…not nearly as impressive. They might work in place of a tech-related degree, if lacking.

Ehh…debatable. Depends on the school’s curriculum. Sometimes yes, sometimes, no. Generally Informations Systems is theory, Information Technology is practical.

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Algorithms classes are what they are. They’re not “designed” to weed out students from a degree. It’s part of the regular course material.

In my case, it was!!! I do agree it should be part of CS curriculum but having the entire class average at 20% (out of 100) is just ridiculous! Just saying there is always at least one teacher who’s like this… Because of these many CS students drop out…it’s sad really…

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Were these students serious about the degree? Or just taking it because they knew a little HTML and knew how to use facebook?

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A good idea would be to look at current job postings (and ones from 3 - 4 years ago when there were actually job openings) and see which degree they are looking for.

And, of course, the best bit of advice anyone can give is to identify which field you want to work in and call some managers at those companies and ask what they are looking for when they have a job opening. If you explain that you are a college student who would like to talk with a manager responsible for staffing for a few minutes (not someone in Human Resources, someone who manages workers day-to-day and makes final hiring decisions), you’ve got a good chance of getting through to someone, or at least scheduling a short telephone conversation.

The toughest possible situation for any student to be in is the one in which they do not know what they want to do. Employers don’t seem to like that, either. They want someone who knows what they want to do and has known for some time so it will be a good fit and the new hire won’t burn out or quit prematurely. If you are in the situation where you don’t know what you want to do, get an education in something as broad as possible. That will provide the most opportunities, but probably not the best ones.

One thing you definitely do not want to do is to be typecast into a job that you do not like. Employers don’t like training employees any more, except for recent graduates. If you start in one highly specialized field, you are going to have a tough time getting a job in another area. For example, I got a job in accounting after college. Not in a good-paying accounting job, mediocre paying. When I tried looking for other jobs, the only interest I generated from employers was for the same types of jobs I was doing. If you don’t like what you are doing and are unhappy with the pay, why would you want to do the same thing somewhere else? Being in that situation is the absolute worst. You dread going to work ever day and struggle to make ends meet.

Bottom line: talk to hiring managers and get their input. You’ll get much more useful information than on a message board.

Also: interning is a must. It’s not easy to get a job if you haven’t interned somewhere during the summer. And, as always, the more prestigious the better.

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We had a class that did weed people out as well. It wasn’t designed to, but it was just tough and probably scared away more people than any. Luckily, it was the 3rd or 5th class you took in the degree, so you weren’t so far in that it meant another 3 years tacked on to your education.

@Ultimate, I don’t want to debate because I speak from experience, so I know what I said is true. A degree does not necessarily mean they know the same. I know how to do software engineering and what not, but that doesn’t mean everyone in my graduating class did. There is a big difference between getting through with an A+ and a C-, but it’s the same piece of paper.

Also, if I didn’t misunderstand something somewhere, you’re from the UK. Working closely with someone from the UK and someone from Canada, I know that all three of our education systems are substantially different, so certain things mean very different things. I think degrees and what not are one of these things.

A (well-known/respected) certificate shows a demonstrated ability in a specific area. Anyone holding said certificate has been certified to possess a certain level of knowledge in a very specific area. If that area coincides with what an employer is looking for it means A LOT.

I think Deaner has come to his own conclusions already (which I think are good ones), so this will probably be my last post on this subject (unless he comes back with more questions).

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In my case, it was!!! I do agree it should be part of CS curriculum but having the entire class average at 20% (out of 100) is just ridiculous! Just saying there is always at least one teacher who’s like this… Because of these many CS students drop out…it’s sad really…

Ouch! The CS degree is tough, and I can see why it’s prestigious to have because of that toughness. I called other good schools like Florida State and University of Miami, both of their programs have much less math classes than University of South Florida. They said it’s because the U.S.F. must of needed an engineering accredation, so that explains why there are so many math classes.

Bottom line: talk to hiring managers and get their input. You’ll get much more useful information than on a message board.

Also: interning is a must. It’s not easy to get a job if you haven’t interned somewhere during the summer. And, as always, the more prestigious the better.

That is a really good idea! I’m going to call a variety of businesses, like local ones, to public sector like hospitals and schools, and then corporations downtown to see what they are looking for.

During my degree I’ll be interning on a senior project, and also a group project. That will give some footing for the industry, but I’m going to push for internships during the summer time just for more experience.

I spoke with the co-chair, and he was a very friendly and intelligent guy. He explained it something like this:

Computer Science (when he did it) was almost all theory, and now has many practical parts to it, but still mostly theory. He explained that the IT program was started about 9 years ago because the businesses (here in FL that is) were complaining alumni were unprepared for their businesses. About four years ago the Lakeland campus (the one I’ll attend) changed into a Polytechnic, and is well received because of it’s cirriculum and as the only Polytechnic for Florida.

He went on to explain that almost all of the classes there are designed for programming, and those that aren’t are the electives (which could be programming from IT, or non-programming from another area like Accounting or something.)

So that is great. I’m sure it won’t be as prestigious as Computer Science, but it definitely fits into my life and still has a lot of prestige by school and curriciulum which I can use practically as well. All I have to do is think about whether to pursue the Masters (more programming, but with business management which can expand to MBA) or Cisco Academy or get experience then do either or. But that is still down the road for me, and things now are going swell!

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I completed my Master Degree in Commerce. After completion of this degree I tried to found Accounting job but i failed. After all, I got Link building job and Now I am working as SEO.

I know degree is play vital role in your job but some time it is difficult to manage it.

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It was a joke?

Although my comment was justified by the response after, and with articles from leading figures in IT like this.

Some universities try to skip some of the logic altogether in some CS subjects. I was taught AI largely without the help of equations or logic, and even though I view this as a poor way to learn the content I still learned it.

What you need to remember is that at university they assume that people join with differing skill levels, and the first year is essentially to get everything to a sufficient level. If you really put the work in from the go you can obtain a good mark, and professors will be far more likely to want to help if you’re a tryer.

This is an excellent idea, and could also pave the way for you to get work during school holidays. This is actually how I landed my first internship during university.

If you can land an internship at a decent company with a good boss that wants to help you then it’s more valuable than most of your classes put together.

As I mentioned multiple times before in this thread, CS is a theoretical subject, but standards have reduced to tailor courses for people stepping into work. This is the response you’ll get from everyone with experience in CS, or proven experience dealing with CS students.

Honestly, I don’t think it matters if you graduated top of your class with a Masters from MIT, you’ll still be unprepared for real work. The reason is that work is entirely different to university. A vocational course may shave a month or two off of the time, but at the risk of theory.

Regardless, if you were studying CS I would highly recommend a number of internships to show that you can work. In the same vein, I would say that if you’re studying a vocational course such as IT I would highly recommend taking theoretical electives and building your knowledge of the theory behind computation.

The reason for this is that a vocational subject like IT will teach you skills that may not be widely in use by the time you graduate. I’ve known a ton of people graduate being taught that SSADM and PRINCE2 are used everywhere in businesses in the UK, only to find that the businesses that will take them with an IT degree haven’t even heard of it, let alone used it (note: they graduated near an industrial area where the government houses IT workers, and these skills are used in government jobs).

My university was keen for us to use Java as our main language whenever we needed to develop data structures or work with multi-agent systems tools, but during my second internship I picked up C# and used it for my final-year project. The reason I landed so many interviews and was offered roles straight out of university was because taking a student who knew C# for a .NET job was a much lower risk than taking a student and teaching them C#/.NET.

Then again, if you have interest in the subject one would think that reading about IT/Programming/CS would interest you anyway, as you’re taking a degree in it. Your degree is an enjoyable time, but be sure to take the advantages of being a student by reading academic papers for free, studying in the library whenever possible, etc.

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As a teacher in the CS and IS areas at the college level in California I am often asked this same question by my students. My advise 90% of the time is CS which is a math and programming based area of study. For example, my students generally take C++, Java, HTML5, Flash, etc. and math through calculus. Plus courses in System design and analysis, and project management. IS students take applications classes like the Microsoft Office Suite and data processing classes.

In defense of the counselors you have spoken with most of the time they try to do the best that they can. There is no way they can be an experts in all areas.

What I suggest to my student is to contact the learning area dean on the CS department in the college you are going to attend and ask him/her your questions.

I also strongly suggest getting the names of 4 to 5 recent graduates you can contact. They ask them a couple of key questions.

  1. What classes did you take only to find out later that you didn’t need them?
  2. What classes did you not take only to find out later that you needed them?
  3. What teacher are good and which ones are bad?

Trust me it’s the student that know the real answers to these questions and a college education isn’t getting any cheaper. Hope this helps you out.

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I agree.It entirely depends on the school’s program. But yes, generally speaking, Informations System deals more on theory, software, system program while IT is more on application to almost all areas just like what is previously mentioned in this thread.

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Hey… I’ve looked through this thread and one thing I haven’t found is what you like to do. It’s the end of a long week so I might have missed it but what do you like to do with regard to science and technology?

It’s all fine and well to look at what jobs are available in various fields but it would be tragic if you spent a lot of time and money (student loans) getting yourself into a working position that you don’t enjoy.

Off Topic:

If I were to do it over again I would go for the CS degree but that’s because I’m into exploring low level computing. I have no idea where it would lead me professionally. My formal education is in business but for my day job I spend most of my time as a developer immersed in code and my time off playing with vintage 8-bit CPUs.

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Deaner - just looking at your posts - you seem to be very detail oriented and that is a great quality for CS - I just want to add a caveat to your search - make sure you do not listen to advisors etc when it comes to the jobs available out there. If you have not already done so I would research Dice and other tech job sites to see what is out there for employment, also the US occupational outlook website. Advisors tend to overstate the availability of jobs or are vague about what is more lucrative.
You are in Florida? It took me over 8 months to get a job here in FL and I have a M.Ed. in my pocket, and that was when the economy was good, back in '05.

CS will give you the opportunity to eventually write your own ticket - you just need to figure out what really trips your trigger when it comes to computers.

Best of luck!

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I completed my Master Degree in Commerce. After completion of this degree I tried to found Accounting job but i failed. After all, I got Link building job and Now I am working as SEO.

I know degree is play vital role in your job but some time it is difficult to manage it

Gosh that had to be disappointing. Did you go for another degree, or was it all self-taught and a little luck that came into the mix?

As I mentioned multiple times before in this thread, CS is a theoretical subject, but standards have reduced to tailor courses for people stepping into work. This is the response you’ll get from everyone with experience in CS, or proven experience dealing with CS students.

Honestly, I don’t think it matters if you graduated top of your class with a Masters from MIT, you’ll still be unprepared for real work. The reason is that work is entirely different to university. A vocational course may shave a month or two off of the time, but at the risk of theory.

Regardless, if you were studying CS I would highly recommend a number of internships to show that you can work. In the same vein, I would say that if you’re studying a vocational course such as IT I would highly recommend taking theoretical electives and building your knowledge of the theory behind computation.

The reason for this is that a vocational subject like IT will teach you skills that may not be widely in use by the time you graduate. I’ve known a ton of people graduate being taught that SSADM and PRINCE2 are used everywhere in businesses in the UK, only to find that the businesses that will take them with an IT degree haven’t even heard of it, let alone used it (note: they graduated near an industrial area where the government houses IT workers, and these skills are used in government jobs).

My university was keen for us to use Java as our main language whenever we needed to develop data structures or work with multi-agent systems tools, but during my second internship I picked up C# and used it for my final-year project. The reason I landed so many interviews and was offered roles straight out of university was because taking a student who knew C# for a .NET job was a much lower risk than taking a student and teaching them C#/.NET.

Then again, if you have interest in the subject one would think that reading about IT/Programming/CS would interest you anyway, as you’re taking a degree in it. Your degree is an enjoyable time, but be sure to take the advantages of being a student by reading academic papers for free, studying in the library whenever possible, etc

That’s a good point. I’ll definitely look at their electives for theoretical related subjects, or at least more focused. I can see why they are necessary five-ten years down the road, because as the languages change rapidly the theories behind computation may not change as fast.

I’ve started looking on places like Monstor, Dice, and a few other websites for what people are looking for. Most list “Computer Science, or other related field” and " at least 2+ experience in X and Y subjects" which I’m going to look into further by calling actual business in my local area.

I’ve also started learning Python 2.6/3.1 and Java, and it’s been very entertaining to manipulate structures. Every night I’ve been studying the books hard with any free time I have to build up my skills for when I do enter my state college (be it for Computer Science or Information Technology.)

As a teacher in the CS and IS areas at the college level in California I am often asked this same question by my students. My advise 90% of the time is CS which is a math and programming based area of study. For example, my students generally take C++, Java, HTML5, Flash, etc. and math through calculus. Plus courses in System design and analysis, and project management. IS students take applications classes like the Microsoft Office Suite and data processing classes.

In defense of the counselors you have spoken with most of the time they try to do the best that they can. There is no way they can be an experts in all areas.

What I suggest to my student is to contact the learning area dean on the CS department in the college you are going to attend and ask him/her your questions.

I also strongly suggest getting the names of 4 to 5 recent graduates you can contact. They ask them a couple of key questions.

  1. What classes did you take only to find out later that you didn’t need them?
  2. What classes did you not take only to find out later that you needed them?
  3. What teacher are good and which ones are bad?

Trust me it’s the student that know the real answers to these questions and a college education isn’t getting any cheaper. Hope this helps you out.

Ah I see…! The course designs definitely make sense now. IS definitely seems more business oriented, while CS is core languages and theories.

I’ve spoken with the Information Technology director, and we had a nice chat about the major and the courses. However, my chats with anyone in Computer Science school have been hurried or tossed aside. It’s very understandable because everyone has been busy the past month and a-half trying to wrap up classes and begin the next lot, but has not rendered any answers. I’m going to drive there this week and physically request to see someone about this and get solid answers instead.

I’m not sure where to contact the graduates, but while there I’ll ask some of the students passing those questions you listed. This will definitely give me a students perspective rather than an advisors or directors.

I agree.It entirely depends on the school’s program. But yes, generally speaking, Informations System deals more on theory, software, system program while IT is more on application to almost all areas just like what is previously mentioned in this thread.
Ah cool. I think USF is melding their IS program into the IT to prevent overlap, and because a lot of students are being attracted to the IT program instead. Ironically… the IT program isn’t compatible with either the CS or SD (software development) programs; most likely because one has to have engineering accredation.

Hey… I’ve looked through this thread and one thing I haven’t found is what you like to do. It’s the end of a long week so I might have missed it but what do you like to do with regard to science and technology?

It’s all fine and well to look at what jobs are available in various fields but it would be tragic if you spent a lot of time and money (student loans) getting yourself into a working position that you don’t enjoy.

Off Topic:

If I were to do it over again I would go for the CS degree but that’s because I’m into exploring low level computing. I have no idea where it would lead me professionally. My formal education is in business but for my day job I spend most of my time as a developer immersed in code and my time off playing with vintage 8-bit CPUs.

I pretty much like everything. I’ve always liked computers, but brushed it aside to business (administration, accounting, etc.) related subjects because many people told me “that was the thing to do” based on my personality and performance. However, over the past year and half, I’ve really divulged myself into the IT field because I noticed such a good market (high demand, but low supply) of qualified professionals to satisfy “the average joe.”

First I started learning the hardware. From the hardware essentials, like the bus, bits, compatibilities, etc. to practicing the hardware by assembling and modifying towers/systems I really loved just learning everything performed. Then I started desktop and network set-ups and support, learning the servers, different kernels, and configurations of software to optimize an environment.

Then people started contacting me for help. First friends and family, then friends of friends/family, and then I started tech. supporting online for Diablo and Starcraft II; each time resolving problems that others could not do/understand, or were too expensive to afford.

Now I am learning things from discrete (NOC related) networks, to more hardware, and (recently, and enjoyably) the programming.

Deaner - just looking at your posts - you seem to be very detail oriented and that is a great quality for CS - I just want to add a caveat to your search - make sure you do not listen to advisors etc when it comes to the jobs available out there. If you have not already done so I would research Dice and other tech job sites to see what is out there for employment, also the US occupational outlook website. Advisors tend to overstate the availability of jobs or are vague about what is more lucrative.
You are in Florida? It took me over 8 months to get a job here in FL and I have a M.Ed. in my pocket, and that was when the economy was good, back in '05.

CS will give you the opportunity to eventually write your own ticket - you just need to figure out what really trips your trigger when it comes to computers.

Best of luck!

Absolutely! When I heard the Career Services person just quit, and they had no data on recent graduates for the IT or CS programs (or most likely had no idea how to find it) goosebumps shred down my arm. When I spoke to the director of IT, he told me the reason they have no data on graduates:time:job ratios is because they haven’t kept in contact with the graduates. I wanted to ask “well, if no one has data on whether the graduates are getting jobs, and the time in which they do after graduation, how do you know the program is working beyond the fact it’s existing?” but felt he was very honest with me already. Still, better safe than sorry, I’ll call him up and ask a few follow-up questions involving the jobs.

And, wow! I’ll really need to research and compare what’s out there then, and definitely intern a lot, or find myself sitting on cold hands. Contemplating CS vs IT will be a big decision, so I’ll compare and contrast the data until there is no more (and there is still a ton to sift through.)

Do you think Computer Science would open more doors, and is worth the extra years to pursue it? The problem is all of math requisites, which I’m fine for studying and learning, but for a year-and-half I’ll be taking only one class per semester (and working full-time in return, of course) just to enter the degree program.

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Do you think Computer Science would open more doors, and is worth the extra years to pursue it?

Yes, I have a Master in C.S. and it has opened many opportunities w/ great benefits and great $$$. No offense to “IT degree” but if I would ask my co-worker “What is a IT degree?” they’ll most likely say “#@!% is IT degree?”

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It’s totally Depends on your own interest. If you are interested in application development than you can go in Computer Science or if you have Interested in Hardware than you can go in Information Technology.As per my point of view Future of Information Technology is brighter than Computer Science. There is more Demand for DBA than Programmer.

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By reading everyone’s comments on this thread one would really feel hesitant about getting a degree in IT. While I do not disagree with any of the comments here at all, I think there are other truths about landing a good job. Good for sg707 to have a very rewarding job but there are also a lot of CS graduates who don’t enjoy their career at all. On the other hand, there are IT graduates who ended up on 6 digits and totally have no regrets about their education. Simple truth: CS is basically a good choice but IT can also lead you to a career of your dream. It all depends on you, your attitude, what do you love to do more, what are your goals and not the economy. Sorry if I’m being a little off topic here.

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The issue people have with IT degrees is that they are relatively new, and traditional employers will often overlook them as outputs of a academic generation that cared more about getting entry-level workers out than graduates trained to a certain level of knowledge.

Absolutely! One of the bigger pitfalls with CS is that a lot of the best graduates get the CS bug from their professors and get roped into post-graduate research. I’ve also known terrible CS graduates who can logically model build a cuckoo hash table in their sleep, but would struggle to write a login system in C#.

However, this is no different to any other degree. I’ve known IT and Forensic Computing students who couldn’t work a server to save their lives, and I’ve met Business Information Systems graduates who would turn fetal at the sight of anything outside of Excel in the workplace.

It can lead to a good career in the industry, but so can CS, or History, or any other degree. Hell, you don’t even really need a degree to be a software developer in a lot of industries. I’ve known fantastic developers with degrees in Classics and I’ve known industry-known game developers land jobs at Blizzard simply because they’ve built Quake mods.

You hit the nail on the head when you stated that you need to love what you do. CS is the most recognised degree in the IT industry, and a lot of self-important bosses will only hire CS graduates because of their own ill-conceived notions of their previous education, but as we’ve all shown a CS degree means nothing without dedication to your work.

All a degree shows is that you’ve worked towards something for 3-4 years, and that you have an assumed level of knowledge that puts you above entry-level development. Employers judge you solely on what they perceive as your level of knowledge.